I was once a very active member of ASAP but, due to life being what it is, I drifted away and haven’t made it back until now.  I first went to ASAP and was informed that ASAP-moderated now exists.  I hope my dropping in is okay.  I’ve been catching up somewhat on posts and have seen quite a few names I recognize from my time here before…Margrove, Jacqualine, Daniel R. Rhodes, Tony Banana, as for others, he years pass and people move on, I guess. I know that no one will probably remember me so I will reintroduce myself…I am Barb, sufferer of depression, severe Panic and GAD since 1991 (the start coinciding with my mothers death), agorophobic for 10 months (completely homebound for that period of time) right after the start of my Panic, I’ve been through every drug known to man (almost) for my wonderful *cough-cough* maladies.  Currently I am on Xanax .5 mg, 2-3x per day. I was most recently on Paxil CR for a while but the sexual side effects were horrid and it was providing little, if any, relief after 15 weeks.  No other AD has worked thusfar either.  *sigh* That’s my basic story in a nutshell.  I plan on sticking around and refamiliarizing myself with the group and the many kind souls here. Peace, ~Barb~ — The charter is available at:

Hi Shelagh, Thank you for your words of understanding. I am trying to rest during the day, but the pain makes me restless and, therefore, wanting to be on the move. I am on Neurontin anyway, but it doesn’t work for me in this circumstance. I will see what the anti-seizure med does. Hopefully, that will prove to be the answer. BJ-Sk. Canada "Shelagh" <valleylu…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:wTvNc.123461$od7.3879@pd7tw3no… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi BJ, from what I learned when my mother was going through this > hellish scenario you are in: carbamazepine is an anticonvulsant > and specific analgesic for trigeminal neuralgia… and my mom was > put on similar meds for her neuralgia from shingles, specifically > tegretol, until they found one that worked…. for her it was > finally neurontin though that was most effective. > I am so sorry that you have ended up with this BJ! > That was my biggest fear for you when you first came out with the > blisters and my knowing the following almost 2 years of it my mom > went through… I am wishing you at best a very speedy recovery > and at the least a fast resolution of the pain you are in! > Take good care of you; make up for your lost sleep in naps if you > can and lie low as your system won’t be ‘up’ for taking care of > much else while you are feeling as you do! > BTW mom too found analgesics to be useless for neuralgia…. she > has been on oxycontin because of an osteoporotically curved spine > involving crushed discs and it didn’t touch the extra pain from > the neuralgia! It must be something else… when I had shingles I > got lucky and never did experience the neuralgia…. thank god! > Hugs from Shelagh > "BJ" <B…@sk.nojunk.ca> wrote in message > news:10gcrlnln130sf5@corp.supernews.com… > > Hi Everybody, > > I went to the doctor yesterday. I have been having intense pain > from the > > shingles. He said I have the neuralgia that is sometimes a > result of this > > condition. He said that I could have this for up to two years, > unless they > > can calm the nerves and break the cycle. He put me on an > anti-seizure drug > > called Carbamazine. He also prescribed Tylenol #3 which he said > might help > > until the other drug kicked in. I took two of those before > bedtime last > > night. They had no effect at all. I was awakened by the pain by > midnight. I > > won’t bother taking those again. The rash from the shingles is > still not > > healed. I guess it is taking longer because of the immune > suppressing drugs. > > It has been about a month. Sorry. Just needed to whine a bit. I > think we > > have enough to deal with on a daily basis. I sure did not need > something > > else added to the mix. > > BJ-Sk. Canada

Response:

Beverley wrote: > Tegretol: I’ve taken for up to 2 years at a time. I never thought it did > much to help with neuralgia.  I discovered as I came off of it I turned into > a witch!! I made PMS seem like a hang nail! I was also on it long enough to > lose feeling in my fingertips. I could burn them in a heartbeat while > cooking. Of course that also meant I could wash dishes in really hot water. > It does go away eventually. Yet while I was on it I didn’t seem to have any > problems  - unless you call losing sensation in my fingertips a problem.

Maybe BJ won’t have problems with that with the Raynaud’s. I don’t. I don’t feel it when I burn my fingertips. > I’m so sorry I don’t have anything really helpful. > But I’m sending you a really big (((((((HUG)))))))) cause cyber hugs never > hurt and always feel really good! > Bev

And to you both from me ( ( ( BJ and Bev ) ) ) J

Response:

Tegretol: I’ve taken for up to 2 years at a time. I never thought it did much to help with neuralgia.  I discovered as I came off of it I turned into a witch!! I made PMS seem like a hang nail! I was also on it long enough to lose feeling in my fingertips. I could burn them in a heartbeat while cooking. Of course that also meant I could wash dishes in really hot water. It does go away eventually. Yet while I was on it I didn’t seem to have any problems  - unless you call losing sensation in my fingertips a problem. I’m so sorry I don’t have anything really helpful. But I’m sending you a really big (((((((HUG)))))))) cause cyber hugs never hurt and always feel really good! Bev "J" <lightho…@example.org> wrote in message

news:41068DE3.30FF4E38@execulink.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Shelagh wrote: > > Hi BJ, from what I learned when my mother was going through this > > hellish scenario you are in: carbamazepine is an anticonvulsant > > and specific analgesic for trigeminal neuralgia… and my mom was > > put on similar meds for her neuralgia from shingles, specifically > > tegretol, until they found one that worked…. for her it was > > finally neurontin though that was most effective. > > I am so sorry that you have ended up with this BJ! > > That was my biggest fear for you when you first came out with the > > blisters and my knowing the following almost 2 years of it my mom > > went through… I am wishing you at best a very speedy recovery > > and at the least a fast resolution of the pain you are in! > > Take good care of you; make up for your lost sleep in naps if you > > can and lie low as your system won’t be ‘up’ for taking care of > > much else while you are feeling as you do! > > BTW mom too found analgesics to be useless for neuralgia…. she > > has been on oxycontin because of an osteoporotically curved spine > > involving crushed discs and it didn’t touch the extra pain from > > the neuralgia! It must be something else… when I had shingles I > > got lucky and never did experience the neuralgia…. thank god! > > Hugs from Shelagh > > " > Actually both those drugs may not be good for the liver. and BJ has a > weird liver thing. > I know my friend can’t take Tylenol # 3 anymore (but she took it for 18 > months or so). > http://www.druginfonet.com/index.php?pageID=faq/new/DRUG_FAQ/Tegretol… > Question: The drug Tegretol was given to a friend of mine after > neurosurgery for base of the skull Meningioma. She presently has Lupus > and results of a recent blood test showed antinuclear factor positive. > What does all this mean? Is there a connection between the various > elements? > Answer: Tegretol is an anti-seizure drug often prescribed after brain > surgery to prevent any subsequent seizures due to irritation of the > brain with the surgery. It is usually tolerated well, but blood levels > are very important as is checking the white blood cell levels which it > can occasionally effect. Sedation, itching, and liver toxicity are the > most common effects seen in my patients. Antinuclear > antibody(abbreviated ANA) is a diagnostic test for Systemic Lupus > Erythematosis. It is also elevated in other connective tissue diseases– > like Rheumatoid Arthritis. There are some drugs that can cause the body > to produce these antibodies(called drug induced Lupus). These include > procainamine, isoniazid, hydralazine, methydopa, quinidine, interferon, > some birth control pills, chlorpromazine, etc. Tegretol is not usually > on this list. > Should I Start Taking Tegretol for Shingles? > Question: I am 62 years old, and I have been diagnosed with Shingles. > The doctor prescribed Zavirox, Ultram and 1400 mg ibuprophen per day. > Also, I presently take Synthroid, Accupril,Premarin, and Voltarin on a > daily basis.I have been in extreme pain on my rightside. I have recently > experienced more of a rash which has covered my face and neck and > several patches on my right side–basically in a belt at the lower rib > cage, behind my right shoulder and another belt extending from the > breast to the back. My first attack goes back years. The pain has been > recurrant, but not always with so much of a rash. The doctor suggested > that I might consider Tegretol, but I would need to be monitored by a > neurologist or an internist. Since Tegretol is an anticonvulsant drug, I > am wondering how does this help Shingles? Any information you can > provide is appreciated. > Answer: Well, tegretol might be of help;but, I would try Zostrix cream > first. Available OTC in .025 or .075. Start with the .025-apply it to > affected areas twice a day(once a day the first week if it stings too > much). It will take 3-4 weeks to work, so don’t give up on it. But, > tends to be very effective and without the side effects of tegretol. > <I’ve been "out of it" here for computer reasons> > Has she tried Zostrix cream? > J

Response:

Whine all you need too!!!!  After all that is what we are all here for. I sure wish, hope and pray that you will be getting relief soon! Hugs, Sherry "BJ" <B…@sk.nojunk.ca> wrote in message

news:10gcrlnln130sf5@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Everybody, > I went to the doctor yesterday. I have been having intense pain from the > shingles. He said I have the neuralgia that is sometimes a result of this > condition. He said that I could have this for up to two years, unless they > can calm the nerves and break the cycle. He put me on an anti-seizure drug > called Carbamazine. He also prescribed Tylenol #3 which he said might help > until the other drug kicked in. I took two of those before bedtime last > night. They had no effect at all. I was awakened by the pain by midnight. I > won’t bother taking those again. The rash from the shingles is still not > healed. I guess it is taking longer because of the immune suppressing drugs. > It has been about a month. Sorry. Just needed to whine a bit. I think we > have enough to deal with on a daily basis. I sure did not need something > else added to the mix. > BJ-Sk. Canada

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Shelagh wrote: > Hi BJ, from what I learned when my mother was going through this > hellish scenario you are in: carbamazepine is an anticonvulsant > and specific analgesic for trigeminal neuralgia… and my mom was > put on similar meds for her neuralgia from shingles, specifically > tegretol, until they found one that worked…. for her it was > finally neurontin though that was most effective. > I am so sorry that you have ended up with this BJ! > That was my biggest fear for you when you first came out with the > blisters and my knowing the following almost 2 years of it my mom > went through… I am wishing you at best a very speedy recovery > and at the least a fast resolution of the pain you are in! > Take good care of you; make up for your lost sleep in naps if you > can and lie low as your system won’t be ‘up’ for taking care of > much else while you are feeling as you do! > BTW mom too found analgesics to be useless for neuralgia…. she > has been on oxycontin because of an osteoporotically curved spine > involving crushed discs and it didn’t touch the extra pain from > the neuralgia! It must be something else… when I had shingles I > got lucky and never did experience the neuralgia…. thank god! > Hugs from Shelagh > "

Actually both those drugs may not be good for the liver. and BJ has a weird liver thing. I know my friend can’t take Tylenol # 3 anymore (but she took it for 18 months or so). http://www.druginfonet.com/index.php?pageID=faq/new/DRUG_FAQ/Tegretol… Question: The drug Tegretol was given to a friend of mine after neurosurgery for base of the skull Meningioma. She presently has Lupus and results of a recent blood test showed antinuclear factor positive. What does all this mean? Is there a connection between the various elements? Answer: Tegretol is an anti-seizure drug often prescribed after brain surgery to prevent any subsequent seizures due to irritation of the brain with the surgery. It is usually tolerated well, but blood levels are very important as is checking the white blood cell levels which it can occasionally effect. Sedation, itching, and liver toxicity are the most common effects seen in my patients. Antinuclear antibody(abbreviated ANA) is a diagnostic test for Systemic Lupus Erythematosis. It is also elevated in other connective tissue diseases– like Rheumatoid Arthritis. There are some drugs that can cause the body to produce these antibodies(called drug induced Lupus). These include procainamine, isoniazid, hydralazine, methydopa, quinidine, interferon, some birth control pills, chlorpromazine, etc. Tegretol is not usually on this list. Should I Start Taking Tegretol for Shingles? Question: I am 62 years old, and I have been diagnosed with Shingles. The doctor prescribed Zavirox, Ultram and 1400 mg ibuprophen per day. Also, I presently take Synthroid, Accupril,Premarin, and Voltarin on a daily basis.I have been in extreme pain on my rightside. I have recently experienced more of a rash which has covered my face and neck and several patches on my right side–basically in a belt at the lower rib cage, behind my right shoulder and another belt extending from the breast to the back. My first attack goes back years. The pain has been recurrant, but not always with so much of a rash. The doctor suggested that I might consider Tegretol, but I would need to be monitored by a neurologist or an internist. Since Tegretol is an anticonvulsant drug, I am wondering how does this help Shingles? Any information you can provide is appreciated. Answer: Well, tegretol might be of help;but, I would try Zostrix cream first. Available OTC in .025 or .075. Start with the .025-apply it to affected areas twice a day(once a day the first week if it stings too much). It will take 3-4 weeks to work, so don’t give up on it. But, tends to be very effective and without the side effects of tegretol. <I’ve been "out of it" here for computer reasons> Has she tried Zostrix cream? J

Response:

The doctor had me using Zovirax cream until the rash started to dry. It is helpful for the discomfort of the lesions, but doesn’t seem to have any effect on the post neuralgia. I’ll be glad when you are back in the loop. Gad, I miss you. BJ-Sk. Canada "J" <lightho…@example.org> wrote in message

news:41068DE3.30FF4E38@execulink.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Shelagh wrote: > > Hi BJ, from what I learned when my mother was going through this > > hellish scenario you are in: carbamazepine is an anticonvulsant > > and specific analgesic for trigeminal neuralgia… and my mom was > > put on similar meds for her neuralgia from shingles, specifically > > tegretol, until they found one that worked…. for her it was > > finally neurontin though that was most effective. > > I am so sorry that you have ended up with this BJ! > > That was my biggest fear for you when you first came out with the > > blisters and my knowing the following almost 2 years of it my mom > > went through… I am wishing you at best a very speedy recovery > > and at the least a fast resolution of the pain you are in! > > Take good care of you; make up for your lost sleep in naps if you > > can and lie low as your system won’t be ‘up’ for taking care of > > much else while you are feeling as you do! > > BTW mom too found analgesics to be useless for neuralgia…. she > > has been on oxycontin because of an osteoporotically curved spine > > involving crushed discs and it didn’t touch the extra pain from > > the neuralgia! It must be something else… when I had shingles I > > got lucky and never did experience the neuralgia…. thank god! > > Hugs from Shelagh > > " > Actually both those drugs may not be good for the liver. and BJ has a > weird liver thing. > I know my friend can’t take Tylenol # 3 anymore (but she took it for 18 > months or so). > http://www.druginfonet.com/index.php?pageID=faq/new/DRUG_FAQ/Tegretol… > Question: The drug Tegretol was given to a friend of mine after > neurosurgery for base of the skull Meningioma. She presently has Lupus > and results of a recent blood test showed antinuclear factor positive. > What does all this mean? Is there a connection between the various > elements? > Answer: Tegretol is an anti-seizure drug often prescribed after brain > surgery to prevent any subsequent seizures due to irritation of the > brain with the surgery. It is usually tolerated well, but blood levels > are very important as is checking the white blood cell levels which it > can occasionally effect. Sedation, itching, and liver toxicity are the > most common effects seen in my patients. Antinuclear > antibody(abbreviated ANA) is a diagnostic test for Systemic Lupus > Erythematosis. It is also elevated in other connective tissue diseases– > like Rheumatoid Arthritis. There are some drugs that can cause the body > to produce these antibodies(called drug induced Lupus). These include > procainamine, isoniazid, hydralazine, methydopa, quinidine, interferon, > some birth control pills, chlorpromazine, etc. Tegretol is not usually > on this list. > Should I Start Taking Tegretol for Shingles? > Question: I am 62 years old, and I have been diagnosed with Shingles. > The doctor prescribed Zavirox, Ultram and 1400 mg ibuprophen per day. > Also, I presently take Synthroid, Accupril,Premarin, and Voltarin on a > daily basis.I have been in extreme pain on my rightside. I have recently > experienced more of a rash which has covered my face and neck and > several patches on my right side–basically in a belt at the lower rib > cage, behind my right shoulder and another belt extending from the > breast to the back. My first attack goes back years. The pain has been > recurrant, but not always with so much of a rash. The doctor suggested > that I might consider Tegretol, but I would need to be monitored by a > neurologist or an internist. Since Tegretol is an anticonvulsant drug, I > am wondering how does this help Shingles? Any information you can > provide is appreciated. > Answer: Well, tegretol might be of help;but, I would try Zostrix cream > first. Available OTC in .025 or .075. Start with the .025-apply it to > affected areas twice a day(once a day the first week if it stings too > much). It will take 3-4 weeks to work, so don’t give up on it. But, > tends to be very effective and without the side effects of tegretol. > <I’ve been "out of it" here for computer reasons> > Has she tried Zostrix cream? > J

Response:

Hi Everybody, I went to the doctor yesterday. I have been having intense pain from the shingles. He said I have the neuralgia that is sometimes a result of this condition. He said that I could have this for up to two years, unless they can calm the nerves and break the cycle. He put me on an anti-seizure drug called Carbamazine. He also prescribed Tylenol #3 which he said might help until the other drug kicked in. I took two of those before bedtime last night. They had no effect at all. I was awakened by the pain by midnight. I won’t bother taking those again. The rash from the shingles is still not healed. I guess it is taking longer because of the immune suppressing drugs. It has been about a month. Sorry. Just needed to whine a bit. I think we have enough to deal with on a daily basis. I sure did not need something else added to the mix. BJ-Sk. Canada

Response:

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20000415/2437.html Carbamazepine (Tegretol) 100 mg orally at bedtime; increase dosage by 100 mg every 3 days until dosage is 200 mg three times daily, response is adequate or blood drug level is 6 to12

Hi everyone. My mother who has had arthritis in her hands for several years has been recently having an itchy rash on her hands as well. She went to the doctor who did some blood testing and said her lupus count was high and has referred her to a bone specialist. If it is indeed lupus, what sort of problems can we expect to go through? I have read some info on the web that makes lupus sound absolutely horrifying, and others that make it seem much more manageable. And while we don’t know for certain that she has lupus (and I am praying she doesn’t), I would just like to know what we are in for if that is indeed the case. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Jeremy

Response:

Jeremy wrote: > Hi everyone. My mother who has had arthritis in her hands for several years > has been recently having an itchy rash on her hands as well. She went to the > doctor who did some blood testing and said her lupus count was high and has > referred her to a bone specialist. If it is indeed lupus, what sort of > problems can we expect to go through? I have read some info on the web that > makes lupus sound absolutely horrifying, and others that make it seem much > more manageable. And while we don’t know for certain that she has lupus (and > I am praying she doesn’t), I would just like to know what we are in for if > that is indeed the case. > Any help would be appreciated. > Thanks, > Jeremy

Hi Jeremy, Welcome to alt.support.lupus It’s hard to know what’s going on there. As far as I know a bone doctor is an orthopedic doctor. The type of doctor who (usually) screens and diagnoses Lupus is a rheumatologist. I think they also treat people with arthritis.  People with Lupus can manifest arthritis changes, but I forget the specifics. Certainly joint pain is one of the symptoms of both.  There are much newer medications that can control the disease process.  Sometimes they also have to take steroids to get the inflammation under control. It is not an easy disease, but as you said it’s usually a management issue.  My uncle had it but died of other causes. SLE is a very personal disease, as it can take many forms and therefore is called the disease with a thousand faces. Diagnosis is difficult, the cause is unknown, and the symptoms vary widely from one patient to another and from day to day for the same patient. While some people are severely affected by Lupus, many others can live virtually normal lives. There’s more information here (including what’s involved for a diagnosis) well worth reading and bookmarking… http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/ASLFAQ/whatis.htm which includes testing for the ANA levels. That’s the first step in a bunch of bloodwork. I assume that’s what you mean by "her lupus count"? Diagnosis of SLE is often delayed in the elderly. This delay may be related to the nonspecific or atypical presenting symptoms (eg, cognitive dysfunction, failure to thrive, fever of unknown origin) and the time and extensive testing needed to exclude other potential causes of these symptoms, such as infection, malignancy, or endocrine abnormality. Drug-induced SLE must also be considered in this population, and medication lists should be reviewed for potential offending agents (eg, hydralazine hydrochloride [Apresoline], procainamide hydrochloride [Procanbid, Pronestyl]). Drug induced Lupus (DLE or DILE) is explained also in the FAQ. I think it’s some (if not all) of heart/BP medications. I hang out here because I have autoimmune thyroid and my brother might have Lupus and I have friends here. I’m not an expert.so watch for other (probably better) replies. Meantime, hang in there, until she’s seen the doctor. J – Canada

Response:

In article <ZSUJc.19806582$Id.3278…@news.easynews.com>, Jeremy <no…@home.com> wrote >Hi everyone. My mother who has had arthritis in her hands for several years >has been recently having an itchy rash on her hands as well. She went to the >doctor who did some blood testing and said her lupus count was high

You can’t count lupus – he must have meant one of the numerous blood counts that are possible. >and has >referred her to a bone specialist. If it is indeed lupus, what sort of >problems can we expect to go through? I have read some info on the web that >makes lupus sound absolutely horrifying, and others that make it seem much >more manageable. And while we don’t know for certain that she has lupus (and >I am praying she doesn’t), I would just like to know what we are in for if >that is indeed the case. >Any help would be appreciated.

See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more! — Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group] See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!

Response:

Jeremy – I know it’s been a while and hope you are reading.  Any news on your mom? I’ve been off and on reading the group.  an itchy rash on the hands could also be psoriatic arthritis I believe.  though don’t quote me on that. I will say that yes, Lupus can be horrifying.  But for the majority of patients it’s more of a pain in the arse than horrifying.  Certainly worse than just a little ache here and there.  But the statistics are in her favor that she will live a normal or near-normal lifespan. Is the arthritis in her hands rheumatoid or osteo?  Rhuematoid arthritis can present with symptoms similar to Lupus symptoms.  So there are a number of things that could be going on that aren’t nearly as frightening as organ-threatening lupus. best, kcat "Jeremy" <no…@home.com> wrote in message

news:ZSUJc.19806582$Id.3278024@news.easynews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi everyone. My mother who has had arthritis in her hands for several years > has been recently having an itchy rash on her hands as well. She went to the > doctor who did some blood testing and said her lupus count was high and has > referred her to a bone specialist. If it is indeed lupus, what sort of > problems can we expect to go through? I have read some info on the web that > makes lupus sound absolutely horrifying, and others that make it seem much > more manageable. And while we don’t know for certain that she has lupus (and > I am praying she doesn’t), I would just like to know what we are in for if > that is indeed the case. > Any help would be appreciated. > Thanks, > Jeremy

Response:

I’m 50 and feel that my right hip is slowly "going out". May take years. I walk 2 miles a day and I wear new jogging shoes. About every month, the right rear back of my right show only has noticeably worn away somewhat. I then get rid of them and put on a new pair of shoes. If instead I continue to wear the same shoes and to walk with them, I feel as if my right side or right hip is…"falling off" or is falling away to the right and down a bit. Throughout my life, I have always noticed the same wear pattern on my shoes: the right rear of the right shoe only wears away on the heel. I wonder what the technical term for this orthopedic condition might be? Can anyone guesstimate a point in time when the hip itself will need to be replaced? Is there something I can do NOW to alleviate this condition (built-up heel? tie-up my right hip with some support fabric?) ?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m 50 and feel that my right hip is slowly "going out". May take years. I walk 2 miles a day and I wear new jogging shoes. About every month, the right rear back of my right show only has noticeably worn away somewhat. I then get rid of them and put on a new pair of shoes. If instead I continue to wear the same shoes and to walk with them, I feel as if my right side or right hip is…"falling off" or is falling away to the right and down a bit. Throughout my life, I have always noticed the same wear pattern on my shoes: the right rear of the right shoe only wears away on the heel. I wonder what the technical term for this orthopedic condition might be? Can anyone guesstimate a point in time when the hip itself will need to be replaced? Is there something I can do NOW to alleviate this condition (built-up heel? tie-up my right hip with some support fabric?) ?

Sounds like you need to see a sports doctor.  I’ve had a problem with my right hip serious enough to stop me from exercising sometimes in the past, but through diet changes and supplements the problem has almost entirely gone away.  I’m taking glucosamine pills among other vitamins and I stopped eating potatos and generally cut back on eating wheat alot.  Amazing results after 3 years.  First 2 years I just took the glucosamine and that helped. In the last year changed my diet.  It feels so much better this year that I only ocasionally feel anything in my hip now, and it never stops me now. Your problem sounds like an alignment problem or something.  But my advice is don’t give up on your current hip so fast. Try some stuff. – Tony

Response:

I stopped eating potatos and generally cut back on eating wheat alot. Huh?  How does this help the hip?

Yes it sounds strange.  The way I understand it is this:  the molecules of undigested potato and some other grains eaten in generious quantities bridge the digestitve tract and get into the body at large and are seen by the immune system as something undesired, setting the immune system to coat them with barrier molecules to keep them under control.  The problem with this is that these molecules (potato and some grains) looks an awful lot like some connective tissue in the joints, so the immune response starts to attack the joints as well.  I don’t have studies to point to – I read it in a diet/lifestyle book, but I can’t explain the dramatic improvement in my own condition absent the addition of these dietary changes. – Tony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Gleshna – Multi-Thousandaire DA LAKES: Da Lake Tube:  http://www.greatlakesurfing.com/images/Gallery/point.jpg Da new Lake Movie: http://www.unsalted.tv/ Da Bears ???????

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m 50 and feel that my right hip is slowly "going out". May take years. I walk 2 miles a day and I wear new jogging shoes. About every month, the  right rear back of my right show only has noticeably worn away somewhat. I then  get rid of them and put on a new pair of shoes. If instead I continue to wear  the same shoes and to walk with them, I feel as if my right side or right hip is…"falling off" or is falling away to the right and down a bit. Throughout my life, I have always noticed the same wear pattern on my  shoes: the right rear of the right shoe only wears away on the heel. I wonder what  the technical term for this orthopedic condition might be? Can anyone  guesstimate a point in time when the hip itself will need to be replaced? Is there  something I can do NOW to alleviate this condition (built-up heel? tie-up my right  hip with some support fabric?) ? Sounds like you need to see a sports doctor.  I’ve had a problem with my right hip serious enough to stop me from exercising sometimes in the past, but through diet changes and supplements the problem has almost entirely gone away.  I’m taking glucosamine pills among other vitamins and I stopped eating potatos and generally cut back on eating wheat alot.  Amazing results after 3 years.  First 2 years I just took the glucosamine and that helped. In the last year changed my diet.  It feels so much better this year that I only ocasionally feel anything in my hip now, and it never stops me now. Your problem sounds like an alignment problem or something.  But my advice is don’t give up on your current hip so fast. Try some stuff. – Tony

You are walking 2 miles a day and buying new shoes every month? Can I have your old ones. Many folks walk that far just doing housework. If you are having hip problems then you are in serious trouble. Perhaps you are not doing enough exercise to even work out the kinks for the day. Personally, I don’t worry about aches and pains for the first two miles of a run because usually they go away. It sound to me from your post that you don’t understand serious exercise and are a bit of a hypochondriac.

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  I’m taking glucosamine pills among other vitamins and I stopped eating potatos and generally cut back on eating wheat alot.  Tony I appreciate the advice, Tony. And, I understand what you are saying about the potatoes. The herbalist Dr. Andrew Weil went into some of that in his book Eat Right For Your Type. Saying that potato (which is a nightshade plant family vegetable) reacts differently to different people. He goes into (too much) more detail: talking about Blood types and plant "lectins", etc. But I get the basic idea. I like your direct approach: modify the diet and observe the results.

Response:

You are walking 2 miles a day and buying new shoes every month? Can I have your old ones. Many folks walk that far just doing housework. If you are having hip problems then you are in serious trouble. Perhaps you are not doing enough exercise to even work out the kinks for the day. Personally, I don’t worry about aches and pains for the first two miles of a run because usually they go away. It sound to me from your post that you don’t understand serious exercise and are a bit of a hypochondriac. I’m getting towards old age, was heavy and am losing weight. Years ago, I was a top ranked tennis player –able to run for hours in the hottest sun on blazing hot courts. That was then and this is now. Now, I amble down the jogging path, walking along my 2 miles at about 2 or 3 miles an hour.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I stopped eating potatos and generally cut back on eating wheat alot. Huh?  How does this help the hip? Yes it sounds strange.  The way I understand it is this:  the molecules of undigested potato and some other grains eaten in generious quantities bridge the digestitve tract and get into the body at large and are seen by the immune system as something undesired, setting the immune system to coat them with barrier molecules to keep them under control.  The problem with this is that these molecules (potato and some grains) looks an awful lot like some connective tissue in the joints, so the immune response starts to attack the joints as well.  I don’t have studies to point to – I read it in a diet/lifestyle book, but I can’t explain the dramatic improvement in my own condition absent the addition of these dietary changes. – Tony Gleshna – Multi-Thousandaire DA LAKES: Da Lake Tube:  http://www.greatlakesurfing.com/images/Gallery/point.jpg Da new Lake Movie: http://www.unsalted.tv/ Da Bears ???????

blah – especially the whole coating/attacking thing – blah… that sounds horrible from a scientist point of view… How about something like potatoes and nightshade are in the same family (solanaceae)(1).  Nightshade is toxic because of chemicals called solanines(2).  So clearly we know that solanines can be in your blood stream and that these chemicals aren’t all that great. Now suppose, some people are more sensitive to solanines.  Because these people react poorly to solanines they have mild immune response (similar to the "allergic" reaction). Note, when your body kicks on the immune response, it’s sort of an on or off thing.  You either have a higher white count or you don’t. Ever had the aches when you had the flu?  That’s part of the immune response. Autoimmune disorders (such as systemic lupus erythematosus and rheumatoid arthritis) occur when the immune system acts to destroy normal body tissues(3). So Tony’s joint aches (due to "normal" inflammation) could be made worse by an immune response as well.  And your body could potentially attack healthy tissue while on the attack for the allergens. For Tony, his hip ache was part of a larger immune response to an "allergy". Damn I’m so good at writing this pseudo-science "justification" babble, I should get my own natural health book. (1) http://www.museums.org.za/bio/plants/solanaceae/ (2) http://www.iowahealth.org/14210.cfm (2) http://health.yahoo.com/health/ency/adam/000821/overview

Response:

lol sounds good to me Becca…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I stopped eating potatos and generally cut back on eating wheat alot. Huh?  How does this help the hip? Yes it sounds strange.  The way I understand it is this:  the molecules of undigested potato and some other grains eaten in generious quantities bridge the digestitve tract and get into the body at large and are seen by the immune system as something undesired, setting the immune system to coat them with barrier molecules to keep them under control.  The problem with this is that these molecules (potato and some grains) looks an awful lot like some connective tissue in the joints, so the immune response starts to attack the joints as well.  I don’t have studies to point to – I read it in a diet/lifestyle book, but I can’t explain the dramatic improvement in my own condition absent the addition of these dietary changes. – Tony Gleshna – Multi-Thousandaire DA LAKES: Da Lake Tube:  http://www.greatlakesurfing.com/images/Gallery/point.jpg Da new Lake Movie: http://www.unsalted.tv/ Da Bears ??????? blah – especially the whole coating/attacking thing – blah… that sounds horrible from a scientist point of view… How about something like potatoes and nightshade are in the same family (solanaceae)(1).  Nightshade is toxic because of chemicals called solanines(2).  So clearly we know that solanines can be in your blood stream and that these chemicals aren’t all that great. Now suppose, some people are more sensitive to solanines.  Because these people react poorly to solanines they have mild immune response (similar to the "allergic" reaction). Note, when your body kicks on the immune response, it’s sort of an on or off thing.  You either have a higher white count or you don’t. Ever had the aches when you had the flu?  That’s part of the immune response. Autoimmune disorders (such as systemic lupus erythematosus and rheumatoid arthritis) occur when the immune system acts to destroy normal body tissues(3). So Tony’s joint aches (due to "normal" inflammation) could be made worse by an immune response as well.  And your body could potentially attack healthy tissue while on the attack for the allergens. For Tony, his hip ache was part of a larger immune response to an "allergy". Damn I’m so good at writing this pseudo-science "justification" babble, I should get my own natural health book. (1) http://www.museums.org.za/bio/plants/solanaceae/ (2) http://www.iowahealth.org/14210.cfm (2) http://health.yahoo.com/health/ency/adam/000821/overview

Response:

Damn I’m so good at writing this pseudo-science "justification" babble, I should get my own natural health book. Bradley No. Rather you’re a kid who talks to hear her head rattle. Bores me to tears both to read folks like you and to bother to reply to the stuff…

Response:

You are walking 2 miles a day and buying new shoes every month? Can I have your old ones. Many folks walk that far just doing housework. If you are having hip problems then you are in serious trouble. Perhaps you are not doing enough exercise to even work out the kinks for the day. Personally, I don’t worry about aches and pains for the first two miles of a run because usually they go away. It sound to me from your post that you don’t understand serious exercise and are a bit of a hypochondriac. I’m getting towards old age, was heavy and am losing weight. Years ago, I was a top ranked tennis player –able to run for hours in the hottest sun on blazing hot courts. That was then and this is now. Now, I amble down the jogging path, walking along my 2 miles at about 2 or 3 miles an hour.

My comments were not meant unkindly, Kirby. I don’t think 50 is near old age. That’s probably because I’m a decade+ older and still average 10 miles per day. Years ago I thought a hip problem would stop me from running because of pain and what seemed like looseness in the joint. It turned out to be more of a muscular, orthopedic problem than a joint problem. Keep working at it. Sometimes there is a simple solution. On the other hand, if you truly do have joing deterioration, perhaps some other non-weight-bearing exercise would make it last longer.

Response:

In article <40b08fef$…@news.tm.net.my>, hooi-bin <ch…@tm.net.my> wrote: >Hi all, >I read with great interest that some are on Imuran, Cytoxan, they sound like >really ’serious and big’ drugs. My question is, what calls for use for these >drugs? Is it when pred. are no longer working?

Hmm, it’s more when you’ve already failed a bunch of the intermediate drugs. At least in the US, you have Plaquenil, methotrexate, Azulfidine, and Arava to try, then a bunch of the newer biotech drugs (though the insurance companies often kick and scream about the cost if you don’t have a concurrant diagnosis of something like rheumatoid arthritis or chron’s disease).  Those drugs include Enbrel, Remicade (has to be given with MTX), Humira, and Kineret (though I’m not sure anyone’s tried that for lupus).  The biologics also carry a small risk of causing lupus-like symptoms, so some RDs aren’t willing to use them for patients who just have lupus.  A bunch of us with with mixed syndromes use these drugs and haven’t had problems (other than the drugs fading out over time), so the risk may be over-stated.  If you have a bunch of organ involvement, you can’t afford, can’t obtain, or can’t tolerate the newer biologics, then you move on to the "chemo" drugs. There’s also treatment with immunoglobulins in severe cases, but I’m not exactly where that fits in.  We had at least one memeber here who’s been through that, and it didn’t sound like fun.   I have mixed lupus and rheumatoid arthritis (the running joke is that a big ugly troll named "Rhupus" has been kicking my ass), and I’ve so far failed Plaquenil, Azulfidine, Arava, and MTX.  And the Enbrel appears to be fading out.  Since I can’t take MTX, Remicade isn’t an option, so we’ll probably be trying Humira next.  Given how incredibly awful _my_ experiences with MTX were, I might chose non-treatment over Cytoxan or Sandimmune.  Most people tolerate MTX just fine, but even the mildest of the chemo drugs made me incredibly ill.  I’m hoping I don’t ever have to find out about the stronger ones. And I’ve now posted way more than I’m supposed to be.  My shoulder is still messed up and I’m waiting on a new keyboard that’s supposed to make things easier for me. — Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        l…@retro.com            KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris See my CafePress Shops: http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/CafePress.html "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"

Response:

Hi Bin, My name is Tori and  I recently had a close encounter with Cytoxan, but instead was able to take Imuran instead. I’m sure you already know they are both essentially forms of Chemotherapy, Cytoxan w/IV treaments and Imuran is pill form. I believe they are used to hit different target areas, but I had to take treaments because my kidneys were failing and thats the step before dialysis. Imuran is not as intense as cytoxan, but it does have some of the side effects, such as nausea and hair lose. My hair is pretty thick and it really thinned out, but it wasnt bad at all. After about 6 weeks  of treatment, the doctor gave me a rest from it because my kidney function had improved significantly, and when i went to my next visit to return back on to treatments, my kidney function was almost to a normal functioning kidney, so I didn’t even have to get back on it. Well I hope this answers your questions. I’d love to answer anyore questions you have.

Response:

> There’s also treatment with immunoglobulins in severe cases, but I’m not > exactly where that fits in.  We had at least one memeber here who’s been > through that, and it didn’t sound like fun.

Do you mean me? I had intravenous gammagobulin for my muscle weakness for awhile….it seemed to be of some help with no obvious side-effects…. G.

Response:

In article <40B3F096.B6CDB…@casselman.net>, Grace Casselman  <gr…@casselman.net> wrote: >> There’s also treatment with immunoglobulins in severe cases, but I’m not >> exactly where that fits in.  We had at least one memeber here who’s been >> through that, and it didn’t sound like fun. >Do you mean me? I had intravenous gammagobulin for my muscle weakness for >awhile….it seemed to be of some help with no obvious side-effects….

Actually, I remember someone else having a rather extreme reaction to IVGG.  She ended up with aseptic meningitis and had to have IV steroids to counter the reaction.  It was several years back. — Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        l…@retro.com            KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris See my CafePress Shops: http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/CafePress.html "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"

Response:

Cindy in Texas maybe? Sherry "Lee Thompson-Herbert" <l…@gw.retro.com> wrote in message

news:c91c8d$iap$1@gw.retro.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <40B3F096.B6CDB…@casselman.net>, > Grace Casselman  <gr…@casselman.net> wrote: > >> There’s also treatment with immunoglobulins in severe cases, but I’m not > >> exactly where that fits in.  We had at least one memeber here who’s been > >> through that, and it didn’t sound like fun. > >Do you mean me? I had intravenous gammagobulin for my muscle weakness for > >awhile….it seemed to be of some help with no obvious side-effects…. > Actually, I remember someone else having a rather extreme reaction to > IVGG.  She ended up with aseptic meningitis and had to have IV steroids > to counter the reaction.  It was several years back. > — > Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        l…@retro.com       KoX 1995, SP4 > Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris > See my CafePress Shops: http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/CafePress.html > "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"

Response:

Sorry. Just saw this one, Sherry. It was Cindy W from Texas who ran into those problems. Good memory there. BJ-Sk. Canada "Sherry" <hurst…@NoSpam.invalid> wrote in message

news:SJdtc.57575$E65.40216@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Cindy in Texas maybe? > Sherry > "Lee Thompson-Herbert" <l…@gw.retro.com> wrote in message > news:c91c8d$iap$1@gw.retro.com… > > In article <40B3F096.B6CDB…@casselman.net>, > > Grace Casselman  <gr…@casselman.net> wrote: > > >> There’s also treatment with immunoglobulins in severe cases, but I’m > not > > >> exactly where that fits in.  We had at least one memeber here who’s > been > > >> through that, and it didn’t sound like fun. > > >Do you mean me? I had intravenous gammagobulin for my muscle weakness for > > >awhile….it seemed to be of some help with no obvious side-effects…. > > Actually, I remember someone else having a rather extreme reaction to > > IVGG.  She ended up with aseptic meningitis and had to have IV steroids > > to counter the reaction.  It was several years back. > > — > > Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        l…@retro.com       KoX 1995, SP4 > > Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris > > See my CafePress Shops:

http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/CafePress.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"

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Has anyone heard from Cindy Ward in Texas lately?  It has been a long time since she posted and she had been so ill and then had all the flood damage etc. If you are lurking Cindy say hey! Hugs, Sherry "BJ" <B…@sk.nojunk.ca> wrote in message

news:10cn3gp3qinpl80@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sorry. Just saw this one, Sherry. It was Cindy W from Texas who ran into > those problems. Good memory there. > BJ-Sk. Canada > "Sherry" <hurst…@NoSpam.invalid> wrote in message > news:SJdtc.57575$E65.40216@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com… > > Cindy in Texas maybe? > > Sherry > > "Lee Thompson-Herbert" <l…@gw.retro.com> wrote in message > > news:c91c8d$iap$1@gw.retro.com… > > > In article <40B3F096.B6CDB…@casselman.net>, > > > Grace Casselman  <gr…@casselman.net> wrote: > > > >> There’s also treatment with immunoglobulins in severe cases, but I’m > > not > > > >> exactly where that fits in.  We had at least one memeber here who’s > > been > > > >> through that, and it didn’t sound like fun. > > > >Do you mean me? I had intravenous gammagobulin for my muscle weakness > for > > > >awhile….it seemed to be of some help with no obvious side-effects…. > > > Actually, I remember someone else having a rather extreme reaction to > > > IVGG.  She ended up with aseptic meningitis and had to have IV steroids > > > to counter the reaction.  It was several years back. > > > — > > > Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        l…@retro.com       KoX 1995, SP4 > > > Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris > > > See my CafePress Shops: > http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/CafePress.html > > > "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"

Response:

Hi all, I read with great interest that some are on Imuran, Cytoxan, they sound like really ’serious and big’ drugs. My question is, what calls for use for these drugs? Is it when pred. are no longer working? Thanks, love – bin

Response:

"hooi-bin" <ch…@tm.net.my> wrote in message

news:40b08fef$1_1@news.tm.net.my… > Hi all, > I read with great interest that some are on Imuran, Cytoxan, they sound like > really ’serious and big’ drugs. My question is, what calls for use for these > drugs? Is it when pred. are no longer working? > Thanks, love – bin

Some consider at least Imuran and Methotrexate to have less risk to them than pred.  Some can’t tolerate prednisone’s side effects.  But I think in general, yes, they are used in cases that need big guns but aren’t responding to pred.  Cytoxan is one of the few (if not the only) drug that directly crosses the blood-brain barrier to suppress immune cell activity in the brain and therefore is the drug of choice for central nervous system lupus. — I am not a Lupus/Fountain Pen Expert. I am not a Medical Doctor. I do not make my living in medicine or in fountain pen repair. All opinions herein are based solely on my experience and observations. Take them with a grain of salt (unless you have high blood pressure…<g>)

Response:

>Jack, I’ve used so much lubricant it’s almost not enjoyable, if you >know what I mean.  Still, she splits. >–Brian

Brian, then it sounds like a fragile mucous membrane problem.  I had something similar a long time ago.  Mine happened to be secondary to an immune system problem (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome), but it can be secondary to a lot of different things.  Have her make the appointment.  :-) Sheila

Response:

– "Brian" <jbrianchamber…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:5i8k00521d8f0tuf2a5hdd1bn7cgako504@4ax.com… > We’ve been working on some things and well, without getting into all > of our problems right now, I was wondering if anyone out there had > experience with this.  My wife has always complained about it, but > only now am I thinking it’s a bigger deal then I originally did. > Apparently during sex, it’s very common for my wife to split in the > vaginal area.  It’s almost not even noticeable but she says it’s > highly uncomfortable.  We use various lubricants but it doesn’t seem > to help.  Does anyone know what might be causing this? She has a call > into her doctor to deal with this and possible some other things but I > figured I’d bring it here first.

My first thought, like everyone else’s, was lubrication, but you mention you’ve used a variety and it doesn’t seem to help, so I’ll throw out some other possibilities: (a) does your usual method of birth control involve any form of latex or spermicide? (Some women are allergic to one or the other of these) (b) how long are your usual bouts of PIV? If she takes a long time to orgasm, and you (like a good little trooper!) are determined to give her one, it’s quite easy to rub her raw. I don’t care what anyone says about hours-long lovemaking sessions–more than 15 minutes of the old in-out in-out and I pretty much guarantee myself a friction burn. Sometimes it’s worth it, but hey… (c) does she have problems with frequent yeast infections? that can also make the tissues more prone to abrasion burns than usual (d) does this occur no matter what position you try?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> Some women also have problems with lubrication.  For some it is cyclical >>> (related to the time of the month), for some it can be a side effect of >>> specific medications, and for some it can be symptom of some underlying >>> problem, such as diabetes or hypertension or even secondary to problems >during >>> childbirth.   >>And some women just make very little lubrication even when aroused.  So it >>may not be due to a "problem;" lubrication may just need to be supplied. >Well see… that’s a problem.  My wife never gets wet.  I mean that’s >what were talking about here.  She has maybe done so, 3 times in our >entire relationship.  These 3 times have occurred when we have either >split up and then got back together or had marital problems.  Our >counselor said she’s subconsciously competing.  During those times, >sex between us has been incredible.  These are the reasons my wife is >considering hormone therapy per her doctors advise.  Now, in the >meantime she tears ever so slightly and then she doesn’t want to have >sex again for awhile.  In fact, I never recall us ever having sex more >then once in a day.   >–Brian

Brian, I’ve wondered before, and now I’ll ask:  what are your expectation for frequency of sex?  Because I gotta tell you, when I read this last sentence, I squinted up my eyesbrows and said, "Well, DUH.  She has had a baby — and now two — for the last 2 or 3 years and working a lot of that time.  I can’t believe that "more than once a day" is something that even came out of his mouth… er, fingers!"  ;-) Sheila

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Brian <jbrianchamber…@yahoo.com> writes: > On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 16:24:11 GMT, Doug Anderson > <ethelthe…@yahoo.com> wrote: > >whans…@aol.com (WhansaMi) writes: > >> >We’ve been working on some things and well, without getting into all > >> >of our problems right now, I was wondering if anyone out there had > >> >experience with this.  My wife has always complained about it, but > >> >only now am I thinking it’s a bigger deal then I originally did. > >> >Apparently during sex, it’s very common for my wife to split in the > >> >vaginal area.  It’s almost not even noticeable but she says it’s > >> >highly uncomfortable.  We use various lubricants but it doesn’t seem > >> >to help.  Does anyone know what might be causing this? She has a call > >> >into her doctor to deal with this and possible some other things but I > >> >figured I’d bring it here first.   > >> >–Brian  ( a tad bit embarrassed for even talking about this) > >> Brian, the most likely scenerio is that (as you have suggested) she isn’t > >> producing adequate lubrication.  This could be because she isn’t sexually > >> aroused at the point where you try to introduce anything into the vagina –and > >> that can include your fingers.  Vaginal membranes can stretch, but they can > >> also be torn if it is done too quickly or roughly.   > >> Some women also have problems with lubrication.  For some it is cyclical > >> (related to the time of the month), for some it can be a side effect of > >> specific medications, and for some it can be symptom of some underlying > >> problem, such as diabetes or hypertension or even secondary to problems during > >> childbirth.   > >And some women just make very little lubrication even when aroused.  So it > >may not be due to a "problem;" lubrication may just need to be supplied. > Well see… that’s a problem.  My wife never gets wet.  I mean that’s > what were talking about here.  She has maybe done so, 3 times in our > entire relationship.

OK; never and three times are different.  Some women really do never get wet (externally) even when aroused.  Your wife (it appears) does get wet when aroused, but is just never aroused. > These 3 times have occurred when we have either > split up and then got back together or had marital problems.  Our > counselor said she’s subconsciously competing.  During those times, > sex between us has been incredible.  These are the reasons my wife is > considering hormone therapy per her doctors advise.  Now, in the > meantime she tears ever so slightly and then she doesn’t want to have > sex again for awhile.

Well, no kidding;  neither would I. > In fact, I never recall us ever having sex more > then once in a day.  

Well that isn’t _so_ unusual.  How often would you _like_ to have sex?

Response:

"Brian" <jbrianchamber…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:hgul00dtghfhjgkg3oe7i70dsfhn9kmgrm@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 21:18:13 GMT, "JWB" > <jwbspamtrapthingee3…@excite.com> wrote: > >"Brian" <jbrianchamber…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > >news:4erl0012tiqm3nhq7u4nmdhv0s85mui662@4ax.com… > >> See the note I posted to Sheila’s response.  I’m not even talking > >> about frequency here. I’m just explaining that since she is left > >> feeling so uncomfortable most of the time afterwards…. Oh Doug I > >> don’t know.  She doesn’t like sex. She never has. I’m grasping at > >> straws here and I’m getting tired of being the one that acts like this > >> matters in our relationship.  She’s the one having problems and I’m > >> being patient and showing interest in it’s resolve. > >That’s partly the issue, Brian. It’s both of your problems. The only reason > >it’s a problem for her is because you want to put your penis in there. > >Otherwise, she doesn’t see it as a problem. > >So, this is a couples problem, not a wife problem with the husband > >"patient". You are obviosuly interested in its resolve for one reason only – > >to get yourself off. > >And, the way I see it, she *knows* you will leave or cheat if for some > >reason this problem has no resolution (and maybe it won’t). No wonder she > >doesn’t get aroused or really want to be with you – she’s broken, and you > >have proven you will leave or cheat if she’s not fixed. You didn’t marry her > >for better or worse, you married her for better or worse, except if the > >vagina is broken. At that point, no matter what else is wonderful about her, > >you will fly. She knows this beyond any doubt. > > If I went around, > >> unable to get an erection, I don’t think it would be long before she > >> started asking some important questions like "Don’t you want to have > >> sex with me? Do you find me attractive?" If I went years without doing > >> anything about it, well then that would say a lot about how important > >> I thought it was. > >What if instead, she had an affair (like you did)? How would that affect > >you? You couldn’t get it up, so she went for a man who could. > >I’m not trying to make you angry (not a hard thing to do, btw  But if I > >can see your "selfishness" regarding this through text, I’m sure she sees > >it. > Christ, JWB…. that’s not it at all.  This isn’t a new problem.  This > isn’t something that just came around because I cheated. I didn’t even > have sex with anyone else so please, let’s stop this from sounding > like I did.  This is something that’s been going on throughout our > entire relationship.

I know this. And obviously, it’s always been an issue for you. She probably really can’t talk about it because she knows that you really care about her vagina first, and her second. That’s the way you come across here. Sorry.  Stop acting like I’m the big bad wolf in this > scenario because it’s not it at all. I’m trying to find out why my > wife isn’t interested in sex.

Because you really want it. That’s the clear reason you want to find this out. You don’t want to find this out to help her have a better life – you want to find out because you want to get laid. > I’m trying to find out why we have no > emotional closeness, no intimacy of any kind.  It’s not just about be > "getting off" as you so eloquently put it.

and, in my opinion, the reason for that is because she knows it will always come back to the sex thing. Why be intimate with you when she knows you’re gonna "go for it’? Again, that’s just an opinion – I’m not in your house (thankfully – the kids would drive me nuts). Is any of this an issue if she could never have sex again? What would you do?

Response:

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 22:33:09 GMT, "Bill in Co." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<LostInT…@earthlink.net> wrote: >WhansaMi wrote: >>>> See the note I posted to Sheila’s response.  I’m not even talking >>>> about frequency here. I’m just explaining that since she is left >>>> feeling so uncomfortable most of the time afterwards…. Oh Doug I >>>> don’t know.  She doesn’t like sex. She never has. I’m grasping at >>>> straws here and I’m getting tired of being the one that acts like this >>>> matters in our relationship.  She’s the one having problems and I’m >>>> being patient and showing interest in it’s resolve. >>> That’s partly the issue, Brian. It’s both of your problems. The only reason >>> it’s a problem for her is because you want to put your penis in there. >>> Otherwise, she doesn’t see it as a problem. >>> So, this is a couples problem, not a wife problem with the husband >>> "patient". You are obviosuly interested in its resolve for one reason only – >>> to get yourself off. >>> And, the way I see it, she *knows* you will leave or cheat if for some >>> reason this problem has no resolution (and maybe it won’t). No wonder she >>> doesn’t get aroused or really want to be with you – she’s broken, and you >>> have proven you will leave or cheat if she’s not fixed. You didn’t marry her >>> for better or worse, you married her for better or worse, except if the >>> vagina is broken. At that point, no matter what else is wonderful about her, >>> you will fly. She knows this beyond any doubt. >>> If I went around, >>>> unable to get an erection, I don’t think it would be long before she >>>> started asking some important questions like "Don’t you want to have >>>> sex with me? Do you find me attractive?" If I went years without doing >>>> anything about it, well then that would say a lot about how important >>>> I thought it was. >>> What if instead, she had an affair (like you did)? How would that affect >>> you? You couldn’t get it up, so she went for a man who could. >>> I’m not trying to make you angry (not a hard thing to do, btw  But if I >>> can see your "selfishness" regarding this through text, I’m sure she sees >>> it. >> Excellent post, JWB. >> When I read through this thread, the word to came to my mind was "selfish" >>  too. I was afraid that this was only because I was a woman, and/or that I >was >> bringing some assumptions in here that weren’t warranted. >> Brian, to give you some explanation as to why that word came to mind, here’s >> an example of what pinged in my head:  You said that sex "those three times" >> was "incredible".  Yet, if I remember your previous posts, she was not >> orgasmic then — at least not all of those times.  Thus, your definition of >> "incredible" only included how *you* percieved the experience — maybe she >> was more active or experimental.  But, I couldn’t classify ANY sexual >> experience wherein my partner didn’t have an orgasm as "incredible".  I get >> the feeling (as I have in the past) that sex is all about you and your >> experience, not mutuality.  Her arousal was great in that *it furthered your >> arousal*, but the fact that she wasn’t orgasmic doesn’t seem to register on >> your radar in the same way.  I can’t help but think that she, too, may feel >> that, in your mind, sex is not much more than using her as an instrument of >> masturbation.  And, if that instrument is broken, then, yeah, you’re pissed. >> I envision a woman who reluctantly "gives" you sex.  I envision a man who >> "wants to have good sex".  What I don’t see is a man who is concerned with >the >> fact that his wife isn’t aroused or orgasmic because he’s concerned for >*her*, >> but because he’s concerned for him. >> Sheila >Yeah, but this isn’t a new revelation, is it?

Fuck you, Bill. You’ve never offered any advice of any kind so don’t chime in now.  No matter what I post, you can’t wait to jump on me, although you’re too much of a coward to do it yourself. Instead you hind behind some bullshit filter. –Brian

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Doug Anderson wrote: > Brian <jbrianchamber…@yahoo.com> writes: >> On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 16:24:11 GMT, Doug Anderson >> <ethelthe…@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> whans…@aol.com (WhansaMi) writes: >>>>> We’ve been working on some things and well, without getting into all >>>>> of our problems right now, I was wondering if anyone out there had >>>>> experience with this.  My wife has always complained about it, but >>>>> only now am I thinking it’s a bigger deal then I originally did. >>>>> Apparently during sex, it’s very common for my wife to split in the >>>>> vaginal area.  It’s almost not even noticeable but she says it’s >>>>> highly uncomfortable.  We use various lubricants but it doesn’t seem >>>>> to help.  Does anyone know what might be causing this? She has a call >>>>> into her doctor to deal with this and possible some other things but I >>>>> figured I’d bring it here first. >>>>> –Brian  ( a tad bit embarrassed for even talking about this) >>>> Brian, the most likely scenerio is that (as you have suggested) she isn’t >>>> producing adequate lubrication.  This could be because she isn’t sexually >>>> aroused at the point where you try to introduce anything into the vagina >>>> –and that can include your fingers.  Vaginal membranes can stretch, but >>>> they can also be torn if it is done too quickly or roughly. >>>> Some women also have problems with lubrication.  For some it is cyclical >>>> (related to the time of the month), for some it can be a side effect of >>>> specific medications, and for some it can be symptom of some underlying >>>> problem, such as diabetes or hypertension or even secondary to problems >>>> during childbirth. >>> And some women just make very little lubrication even when aroused.  So it >>> may not be due to a "problem;" lubrication may just need to be supplied. >> Well see… that’s a problem.  My wife never gets wet.  I mean that’s >> what were talking about here.  She has maybe done so, 3 times in our >> entire relationship. > OK; never and three times are different.  Some women really do never > get wet (externally) even when aroused.  Your wife (it appears) does > get wet when aroused, but is just never aroused.

But how do you/we know this for a fact?    What source do you have for that assertion?    Maybe they just weren’t aroused properly.   (It may not be genetic, is what I’m suggesting).

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -WhansaMi wrote: >>> See the note I posted to Sheila’s response.  I’m not even talking >>> about frequency here. I’m just explaining that since she is left >>> feeling so uncomfortable most of the time afterwards…. Oh Doug I >>> don’t know.  She doesn’t like sex. She never has. I’m grasping at >>> straws here and I’m getting tired of being the one that acts like this >>> matters in our relationship.  She’s the one having problems and I’m >>> being patient and showing interest in it’s resolve. >> That’s partly the issue, Brian. It’s both of your problems. The only reason >> it’s a problem for her is because you want to put your penis in there. >> Otherwise, she doesn’t see it as a problem. >> So, this is a couples problem, not a wife problem with the husband >> "patient". You are obviosuly interested in its resolve for one reason only – >> to get yourself off. >> And, the way I see it, she *knows* you will leave or cheat if for some >> reason this problem has no resolution (and maybe it won’t). No wonder she >> doesn’t get aroused or really want to be with you – she’s broken, and you >> have proven you will leave or cheat if she’s not fixed. You didn’t marry her >> for better or worse, you married her for better or worse, except if the >> vagina is broken. At that point, no matter what else is wonderful about her, >> you will fly. She knows this beyond any doubt. >> If I went around, >>> unable to get an erection, I don’t think it would be long before she >>> started asking some important questions like "Don’t you want to have >>> sex with me? Do you find me attractive?" If I went years without doing >>> anything about it, well then that would say a lot about how important >>> I thought it was. >> What if instead, she had an affair (like you did)? How would that affect >> you? You couldn’t get it up, so she went for a man who could. >> I’m not trying to make you angry (not a hard thing to do, btw  But if I >> can see your "selfishness" regarding this through text, I’m sure she sees >> it. > Excellent post, JWB. > When I read through this thread, the word to came to my mind was "selfish" >  too. I was afraid that this was only because I was a woman, and/or that I was > bringing some assumptions in here that weren’t warranted. > Brian, to give you some explanation as to why that word came to mind, here’s > an example of what pinged in my head:  You said that sex "those three times" > was "incredible".  Yet, if I remember your previous posts, she was not > orgasmic then — at least not all of those times.  Thus, your definition of > "incredible" only included how *you* percieved the experience — maybe she > was more active or experimental.  But, I couldn’t classify ANY sexual > experience wherein my partner didn’t have an orgasm as "incredible".  I get > the feeling (as I have in the past) that sex is all about you and your > experience, not mutuality.  Her arousal was great in that *it furthered your > arousal*, but the fact that she wasn’t orgasmic doesn’t seem to register on > your radar in the same way.  I can’t help but think that she, too, may feel > that, in your mind, sex is not much more than using her as an instrument of > masturbation.  And, if that instrument is broken, then, yeah, you’re pissed. > I envision a woman who reluctantly "gives" you sex.  I envision a man who > "wants to have good sex".  What I don’t see is a man who is concerned with the > fact that his wife isn’t aroused or orgasmic because he’s concerned for *her*, > but because he’s concerned for him. > Sheila

Yeah, but this isn’t a new revelation, is it?

Response:

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 21:18:13 GMT, "JWB" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<jwbspamtrapthingee3…@excite.com> wrote: >"Brian" <jbrianchamber…@yahoo.com> wrote in message >news:4erl0012tiqm3nhq7u4nmdhv0s85mui662@4ax.com… >> See the note I posted to Sheila’s response.  I’m not even talking >> about frequency here. I’m just explaining that since she is left >> feeling so uncomfortable most of the time afterwards…. Oh Doug I >> don’t know.  She doesn’t like sex. She never has. I’m grasping at >> straws here and I’m getting tired of being the one that acts like this >> matters in our relationship.  She’s the one having problems and I’m >> being patient and showing interest in it’s resolve. >That’s partly the issue, Brian. It’s both of your problems. The only reason >it’s a problem for her is because you want to put your penis in there. >Otherwise, she doesn’t see it as a problem. >So, this is a couples problem, not a wife problem with the husband >"patient". You are obviosuly interested in its resolve for one reason only – >to get yourself off. >And, the way I see it, she *knows* you will leave or cheat if for some >reason this problem has no resolution (and maybe it won’t). No wonder she >doesn’t get aroused or really want to be with you – she’s broken, and you >have proven you will leave or cheat if she’s not fixed. You didn’t marry her >for better or worse, you married her for better or worse, except if the >vagina is broken. At that point, no matter what else is wonderful about her, >you will fly. She knows this beyond any doubt. > If I went around, >> unable to get an erection, I don’t think it would be long before she >> started asking some important questions like "Don’t you want to have >> sex with me? Do you find me attractive?" If I went years without doing >> anything about it, well then that would say a lot about how important >> I thought it was. >What if instead, she had an affair (like you did)? How would that affect >you? You couldn’t get it up, so she went for a man who could. >I’m not trying to make you angry (not a hard thing to do, btw  But if I >can see your "selfishness" regarding this through text, I’m sure she sees >it.

Christ, JWB…. that’s not it at all.  This isn’t a new problem.  This isn’t something that just came around because I cheated. I didn’t even have sex with anyone else so please, let’s stop this from sounding like I did.  This is something that’s been going on throughout our entire relationship.  Stop acting like I’m the big bad wolf in this scenario because it’s not it at all. I’m trying to find out why my wife isn’t interested in sex.  I’m trying to find out why we have no emotional closeness, no intimacy of any kind.  It’s not just about be "getting off" as you so eloquently put it. –Brian

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> See the note I posted to Sheila’s response.  I’m not even talking >> about frequency here. I’m just explaining that since she is left >> feeling so uncomfortable most of the time afterwards…. Oh Doug I >> don’t know.  She doesn’t like sex. She never has. I’m grasping at >> straws here and I’m getting tired of being the one that acts like this >> matters in our relationship.  She’s the one having problems and I’m >> being patient and showing interest in it’s resolve. >That’s partly the issue, Brian. It’s both of your problems. The only reason >it’s a problem for her is because you want to put your penis in there. >Otherwise, she doesn’t see it as a problem. >So, this is a couples problem, not a wife problem with the husband >"patient". You are obviosuly interested in its resolve for one reason only – >to get yourself off. >And, the way I see it, she *knows* you will leave or cheat if for some >reason this problem has no resolution (and maybe it won’t). No wonder she >doesn’t get aroused or really want to be with you – she’s broken, and you >have proven you will leave or cheat if she’s not fixed. You didn’t marry her >for better or worse, you married her for better or worse, except if the >vagina is broken. At that point, no matter what else is wonderful about her, >you will fly. She knows this beyond any doubt. > If I went around, >> unable to get an erection, I don’t think it would be long before she >> started asking some important questions like "Don’t you want to have >> sex with me? Do you find me attractive?" If I went years without doing >> anything about it, well then that would say a lot about how important >> I thought it was. >What if instead, she had an affair (like you did)? How would that affect >you? You couldn’t get it up, so she went for a man who could. >I’m not trying to make you angry (not a hard thing to do, btw  But if I >can see your "selfishness" regarding this through text, I’m sure she sees >it.

Excellent post, JWB.   When I read through this thread, the word to came to my mind was "selfish" too.  I was afraid that this was only because I was a woman, and/or that I was bringing some assumptions in here that weren’t warranted.   Brian, to give you some explanation as to why that word came to mind, here’s an example of what pinged in my head:  You said that sex "those three times" was "incredible".  Yet, if I remember your previous posts, she was not orgasmic then — at least not all of those times.  Thus, your definition of "incredible" only included how *you* percieved the experience — maybe she was more active or experimental.  But, I couldn’t classify ANY sexual experience wherein my partner didn’t have an orgasm as "incredible".  I get the feeling (as I have in the past) that sex is all about you and your experience, not mutuality.  Her arousal was great in that *it furthered your arousal*, but the fact that she wasn’t orgasmic doesn’t seem to register on your radar in the same way.  I can’t help but think that she, too, may feel that, in your mind, sex is not much more than using her as an instrument of masturbation.  And, if that instrument is broken, then, yeah, you’re pissed.   I envision a woman who reluctantly "gives" you sex.  I envision a man who "wants to have good sex".  What I don’t see is a man who is concerned with the fact that his wife isn’t aroused or orgasmic because he’s concerned for *her*, but because he’s concerned for him. Sheila

Response:

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 07:26:41 GMT, Doug Anderson <ethelthe…@yahoo.com> wrote: >Brian <jbrianchamber…@yahoo.com> writes: >> We’ve been working on some things and well, without getting into all >> of our problems right now, I was wondering if anyone out there had >> experience with this.  My wife has always complained about it, but >> only now am I thinking it’s a bigger deal then I originally did. >I hope the doctor can help your wife with this.  For your future reference, >it might be worth you trying to understand why you didn’t take this more >seriously.

I guess taking it seriously was the wrong choice of words.  I never knew what I could do about it and she never made that much of it either.  It’s only now, after we’ve looked into every nook and cranny (no pun intended).  She doesn’t get a gaping rip or anything. It’s just a small irritation that bothers her.  She’s always had the problem of not getting arroused and I suppose that’s what has finally prompted the call to the doctor.  I believe the next step is hormon therapy.  Regardless, whether it’s her own natural lubrication or the store bought varitey, should she still be splitting? –Brian

Response:

"Brian" <jbrianchamber…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:oi6l00dhugprja9r357k20lmgmfnaqn98l@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 07:26:41 GMT, Doug Anderson > <ethelthe…@yahoo.com> wrote: > >Brian <jbrianchamber…@yahoo.com> writes: > >> We’ve been working on some things and well, without getting into all > >> of our problems right now, I was wondering if anyone out there had > >> experience with this.  My wife has always complained about it, but > >> only now am I thinking it’s a bigger deal then I originally did. > >I hope the doctor can help your wife with this.  For your future reference, > >it might be worth you trying to understand why you didn’t take this more > >seriously. > I guess taking it seriously was the wrong choice of words.  I never > knew what I could do about it and she never made that much of it > either.  It’s only now, after we’ve looked into every nook and cranny > (no pun intended).  She doesn’t get a gaping rip or anything. It’s > just a small irritation that bothers her.  She’s always had the > problem of not getting arroused and I suppose that’s what has finally > prompted the call to the doctor.  I believe the next step is hormon > therapy.  Regardless, whether it’s her own natural lubrication or the > store bought varitey, should she still be splitting?

No, she shouldn’t still be "splitting", as you put it.  Since you describe it as "almost not even noticeable" I’m assuming that this is an exterior tear.  Could it be associated with an old episiotomy?

Response:

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:08:16 -0500, "Joy" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<fairly_happy_doesn’t_need_any_more_s…@withoutspamyahoo.com> wrote: >"Brian" <jbrianchamber…@yahoo.com> wrote in message >news:oi6l00dhugprja9r357k20lmgmfnaqn98l@4ax.com… >> On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 07:26:41 GMT, Doug Anderson >> <ethelthe…@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >Brian <jbrianchamber…@yahoo.com> writes: >> >> We’ve been working on some things and well, without getting into all >> >> of our problems right now, I was wondering if anyone out there had >> >> experience with this.  My wife has always complained about it, but >> >> only now am I thinking it’s a bigger deal then I originally did. >> >I hope the doctor can help your wife with this.  For your future >reference, >> >it might be worth you trying to understand why you didn’t take this more >> >seriously. >> I guess taking it seriously was the wrong choice of words.  I never >> knew what I could do about it and she never made that much of it >> either.  It’s only now, after we’ve looked into every nook and cranny >> (no pun intended).  She doesn’t get a gaping rip or anything. It’s >> just a small irritation that bothers her.  She’s always had the >> problem of not getting arroused and I suppose that’s what has finally >> prompted the call to the doctor.  I believe the next step is hormon >> therapy.  Regardless, whether it’s her own natural lubrication or the >> store bought varitey, should she still be splitting? >No, she shouldn’t still be "splitting", as you put it.  Since you describe >it as "almost not even noticeable" I’m assuming that this is an exterior >tear.  Could it be associated with an old episiotomy?

It’s a very minor thing, but very sensitive.  I’ve never even been able to see it except for maybe once.  There is no blood involved so it’s very much on the surface.  Still, sometimes the smallest of cuts can be the most painful, especially there.   –Brian

Response:

"Brian" <jbrianchamber…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:4erl0012tiqm3nhq7u4nmdhv0s85mui662@4ax.com… > See the note I posted to Sheila’s response.  I’m not even talking > about frequency here. I’m just explaining that since she is left > feeling so uncomfortable most of the time afterwards…. Oh Doug I > don’t know.  She doesn’t like sex. She never has. I’m grasping at > straws here and I’m getting tired of being the one that acts like this > matters in our relationship.  She’s the one having problems and I’m > being patient and showing interest in it’s resolve.

That’s partly the issue, Brian. It’s both of your problems. The only reason it’s a problem for her is because you want to put your penis in there. Otherwise, she doesn’t see it as a problem. So, this is a couples problem, not a wife problem with the husband "patient". You are obviosuly interested in its resolve for one reason only – to get yourself off. And, the way I see it, she *knows* you will leave or cheat if for some reason this problem has no resolution (and maybe it won’t). No wonder she doesn’t get aroused or really want to be with you – she’s broken, and you have proven you will leave or cheat if she’s not fixed. You didn’t marry her for better or worse, you married her for better or worse, except if the vagina is broken. At that point, no matter what else is wonderful about her, you will fly. She knows this beyond any doubt.  If I went around, > unable to get an erection, I don’t think it would be long before she > started asking some important questions like "Don’t you want to have > sex with me? Do you find me attractive?" If I went years without doing > anything about it, well then that would say a lot about how important > I thought it was.

What if instead, she had an affair (like you did)? How would that affect you? You couldn’t get it up, so she went for a man who could. I’m not trying to make you angry (not a hard thing to do, btw  But if I can see your "selfishness" regarding this through text, I’m sure she sees it.

Response:

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 19:54:38 GMT, Doug Anderson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<ethelthe…@yahoo.com> wrote: >Brian <jbrianchamber…@yahoo.com> writes: >> On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 16:24:11 GMT, Doug Anderson >> <ethelthe…@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >whans…@aol.com (WhansaMi) writes: >> >> >We’ve been working on some things and well, without getting into all >> >> >of our problems right now, I was wondering if anyone out there had >> >> >experience with this.  My wife has always complained about it, but >> >> >only now am I thinking it’s a bigger deal then I originally did. >> >> >Apparently during sex, it’s very common for my wife to split in the >> >> >vaginal area.  It’s almost not even noticeable but she says it’s >> >> >highly uncomfortable.  We use various lubricants but it doesn’t seem >> >> >to help.  Does anyone know what might be causing this? She has a call >> >> >into her doctor to deal with this and possible some other things but I >> >> >figured I’d bring it here first.   >> >> >–Brian  ( a tad bit embarrassed for even talking about this) >> >> Brian, the most likely scenerio is that (as you have suggested) she isn’t >> >> producing adequate lubrication.  This could be because she isn’t sexually >> >> aroused at the point where you try to introduce anything into the vagina –and >> >> that can include your fingers.  Vaginal membranes can stretch, but they can >> >> also be torn if it is done too quickly or roughly.   >> >> Some women also have problems with lubrication.  For some it is cyclical >> >> (related to the time of the month), for some it can be a side effect of >> >> specific medications, and for some it can be symptom of some underlying >> >> problem, such as diabetes or hypertension or even secondary to problems during >> >> childbirth.   >> >And some women just make very little lubrication even when aroused.  So it >> >may not be due to a "problem;" lubrication may just need to be supplied. >> Well see… that’s a problem.  My wife never gets wet.  I mean that’s >> what were talking about here.  She has maybe done so, 3 times in our >> entire relationship. >OK; never and three times are different.  Some women really do never >get wet (externally) even when aroused.  Your wife (it appears) does >get wet when aroused, but is just never aroused. >> These 3 times have occurred when we have either >> split up and then got back together or had marital problems.  Our >> counselor said she’s subconsciously competing.  During those times, >> sex between us has been incredible.  These are the reasons my wife is >> considering hormone therapy per her doctors advise.  Now, in the >> meantime she tears ever so slightly and then she doesn’t want to have >> sex again for awhile. >Well, no kidding;  neither would I. >> In fact, I never recall us ever having sex more >> then once in a day.   >Well that isn’t _so_ unusual.  How often would you _like_ to have sex?

Doug — See the note I posted to Sheila’s response.  I’m not even talking about frequency here. I’m just explaining that since she is left feeling so uncomfortable most of the time afterwards…. Oh Doug I don’t know.  She doesn’t like sex. She never has. I’m grasping at straws here and I’m getting tired of being the one that acts like this matters in our relationship.  She’s the one having problems and I’m being patient and showing interest in it’s resolve.  If I went around, unable to get an erection, I don’t think it would be long before she started asking some important questions like "Don’t you want to have sex with me? Do you find me attractive?" If I went years without doing anything about it, well then that would say a lot about how important I thought it was.

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On 18 Jan 2004 17:42:52 GMT, whans…@aol.com (WhansaMi) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>> Some women also have problems with lubrication.  For some it is cyclical >>>> (related to the time of the month), for some it can be a side effect of >>>> specific medications, and for some it can be symptom of some underlying >>>> problem, such as diabetes or hypertension or even secondary to problems >>during >>>> childbirth.   >>>And some women just make very little lubrication even when aroused.  So it >>>may not be due to a "problem;" lubrication may just need to be supplied. >>Well see… that’s a problem.  My wife never gets wet.  I mean that’s >>what were talking about here.  She has maybe done so, 3 times in our >>entire relationship.  These 3 times have occurred when we have either >>split up and then got back together or had marital problems.  Our >>counselor said she’s subconsciously competing.  During those times, >>sex between us has been incredible.  These are the reasons my wife is >>considering hormone therapy per her doctors advise.  Now, in the >>meantime she tears ever so slightly and then she doesn’t want to have >>sex again for awhile.  In fact, I never recall us ever having sex more >>then once in a day.   >>–Brian >Brian, I’ve wondered before, and now I’ll ask:  what are your expectation for >frequency of sex?  Because I gotta tell you, when I read this last sentence, I >squinted up my eyesbrows and said, "Well, DUH.  She has had a baby — and now >two — for the last 2 or 3 years and working a lot of that time.  I can’t >believe that "more than once a day" is something that even came out of his >mouth… er, fingers!"  ;-) >Sheila

Sheila — I’m not expecting sex every day, multiple times that day. I was just explaining that we’ve NEVER had sex in one day, more then once.  It’s like "there, we did it… now let’s watch television or do something else."  She doesn’t like it and I don’t think she ever will. –Brian

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"DrLith" <drl…@hotmail.com> writes: > — "Brian" <jbrianchamber…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:5i8k00521d8f0tuf2a5hdd1bn7cgako504@4ax.com… > > We’ve been working on some things and well, without getting into all > > of our problems right now, I was wondering if anyone out there had > > experience with this.  My wife has always complained about it, but > > only now am I thinking it’s a bigger deal then I originally did. > > Apparently during sex, it’s very common for my wife to split in the > > vaginal area.  It’s almost not even noticeable but she says it’s > > highly uncomfortable.  We use various lubricants but it doesn’t seem > > to help.  Does anyone know what might be causing this? She has a call > > into her doctor to deal with this and possible some other things but I > > figured I’d bring it here first. > My first thought, like everyone else’s, was lubrication, but you mention > you’ve used a variety and it doesn’t seem to help, so I’ll throw out some > other possibilities: > (a) does your usual method of birth control involve any form of latex or > spermicide? (Some women are allergic to one or the other of these) > (b) how long are your usual bouts of PIV? If she takes a long time to > orgasm, and you (like a good little trooper!) are determined to give her > one, it’s quite easy to rub her raw.

Right.  Good question.  Though you’ve missed a chapter here.  I believe that she more or less _doesn’t_ have orgasms, which is surely related to another part of the problem. > I don’t care what anyone says about > hours-long lovemaking sessions–more than 15 minutes of the old in-out > in-out and I pretty much guarantee myself a friction burn. Sometimes it’s > worth it, but hey… > (c) does she have problems with frequent yeast infections? that can also > make the tissues more prone to abrasion burns than usual > (d) does this occur no matter what position you try?

Incidentally, my wife has occasionally had what sounds like a very similar problem.  But it is only slightly (if at all) associated with intercourse – it seems to be more strongly associated with going to the beach (heat and salt water).  

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On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 15:31:59 GMT, cupas…@softhome.net (Jack C – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Lipton) wrote: >Brian wrote: >> It’s a very minor thing, but very sensitive.  I’ve never >> even been able to see it except for maybe once.  There >> is no blood involved so it’s very much on the surface. >> Still, sometimes the smallest of cuts can be the most >> painful, especially there.   >Please put down the baseball bat, I’m going to say something >stupid, here, primarily an effort to garner some laughs. >It sounds almost like she’s getting paper cuts. >If so, she should not be wearing legal briefs. >All right, in all seriousness, it sounds like a pretty damn >annoying irritation and given how women’s moods are usually >far more fragile than a man’s (getting on-task and staying >there seems to be a problem anyway) it wouldn’t take much >to suck all of the joy of the activity out. >Now I’ll dive back to the gutter just to make another >stupid remark: >Have you considered, instead of or before PIV, kissing it >to make it all better? >(I think I can hear incoming…)

Jack, I’ve used so much lubricant it’s almost not enjoyable, if you know what I mean.  Still, she splits. –Brian

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On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 16:24:11 GMT, Doug Anderson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<ethelthe…@yahoo.com> wrote: >whans…@aol.com (WhansaMi) writes: >> >We’ve been working on some things and well, without getting into all >> >of our problems right now, I was wondering if anyone out there had >> >experience with this.  My wife has always complained about it, but >> >only now am I thinking it’s a bigger deal then I originally did. >> >Apparently during sex, it’s very common for my wife to split in the >> >vaginal area.  It’s almost not even noticeable but she says it’s >> >highly uncomfortable.  We use various lubricants but it doesn’t seem >> >to help.  Does anyone know what might be causing this? She has a call >> >into her doctor to deal with this and possible some other things but I >> >figured I’d bring it here first.   >> >–Brian  ( a tad bit embarrassed for even talking about this) >> Brian, the most likely scenerio is that (as you have suggested) she isn’t >> producing adequate lubrication.  This could be because she isn’t sexually >> aroused at the point where you try to introduce anything into the vagina –and >> that can include your fingers.  Vaginal membranes can stretch, but they can >> also be torn if it is done too quickly or roughly.   >> Some women also have problems with lubrication.  For some it is cyclical >> (related to the time of the month), for some it can be a side effect of >> specific medications, and for some it can be symptom of some underlying >> problem, such as diabetes or hypertension or even secondary to problems during >> childbirth.   >And some women just make very little lubrication even when aroused.  So it >may not be due to a "problem;" lubrication may just need to be supplied.

Well see… that’s a problem.  My wife never gets wet.  I mean that’s what were talking about here.  She has maybe done so, 3 times in our entire relationship.  These 3 times have occurred when we have either split up and then got back together or had marital problems.  Our counselor said she’s subconsciously competing.  During those times, sex between us has been incredible.  These are the reasons my wife is considering hormone therapy per her doctors advise.  Now, in the meantime she tears ever so slightly and then she doesn’t want to have sex again for awhile.  In fact, I never recall us ever having sex more then once in a day.   –Brian

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -whans…@aol.com (WhansaMi) writes: > >We’ve been working on some things and well, without getting into all > >of our problems right now, I was wondering if anyone out there had > >experience with this.  My wife has always complained about it, but > >only now am I thinking it’s a bigger deal then I originally did. > >Apparently during sex, it’s very common for my wife to split in the > >vaginal area.  It’s almost not even noticeable but she says it’s > >highly uncomfortable.  We use various lubricants but it doesn’t seem > >to help.  Does anyone know what might be causing this? She has a call > >into her doctor to deal with this and possible some other things but I > >figured I’d bring it here first.   > >–Brian  ( a tad bit embarrassed for even talking about this) > Brian, the most likely scenerio is that (as you have suggested) she isn’t > producing adequate lubrication.  This could be because she isn’t sexually > aroused at the point where you try to introduce anything into the vagina –and > that can include your fingers.  Vaginal membranes can stretch, but they can > also be torn if it is done too quickly or roughly.   > Some women also have problems with lubrication.  For some it is cyclical > (related to the time of the month), for some it can be a side effect of > specific medications, and for some it can be symptom of some underlying > problem, such as diabetes or hypertension or even secondary to problems during > childbirth.  

And some women just make very little lubrication even when aroused.  So it may not be due to a "problem;" lubrication may just need to be supplied.

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Brian wrote: > It’s a very minor thing, but very sensitive.  I’ve never > even been able to see it except for maybe once.  There > is no blood involved so it’s very much on the surface. > Still, sometimes the smallest of cuts can be the most > painful, especially there.  

Please put down the baseball bat, I’m going to say something stupid, here, primarily an effort to garner some laughs. It sounds almost like she’s getting paper cuts. If so, she should not be wearing legal briefs. All right, in all seriousness, it sounds like a pretty damn annoying irritation and given how women’s moods are usually far more fragile than a man’s (getting on-task and staying there seems to be a problem anyway) it wouldn’t take much to suck all of the joy of the activity out. Now I’ll dive back to the gutter just to make another stupid remark: Have you considered, instead of or before PIV, kissing it to make it all better? (I think I can hear incoming…) — Jack C Lipton  |   cupas…@softhome.net   |  http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/

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We’ve been working on some things and well, without getting into all of our problems right now, I was wondering if anyone out there had experience with this.  My wife has always complained about it, but only now am I thinking it’s a bigger deal then I originally did. Apparently during sex, it’s very common for my wife to split in the vaginal area.  It’s almost not even noticeable but she says it’s highly uncomfortable.  We use various lubricants but it doesn’t seem to help.  Does anyone know what might be causing this? She has a call into her doctor to deal with this and possible some other things but I figured I’d bring it here first.   –Brian  ( a tad bit embarrassed for even talking about this)

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Brian <jbrianchamber…@yahoo.com> writes: > We’ve been working on some things and well, without getting into all > of our problems right now, I was wondering if anyone out there had > experience with this.  My wife has always complained about it, but > only now am I thinking it’s a bigger deal then I originally did.

I hope the doctor can help your wife with this.  For your future reference, it might be worth you trying to understand why you didn’t take this more seriously.

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"Brian" <jbrianchamber…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:5i8k00521d8f0tuf2a5hdd1bn7cgako504@4ax.com… > We’ve been working on some things and well, without getting into all > of our problems right now, I was wondering if anyone out there had > experience with this.  My wife has always complained about it, but > only now am I thinking it’s a bigger deal then I originally did. > Apparently during sex, it’s very common for my wife to split in the > vaginal area.  It’s almost not even noticeable but she says it’s > highly uncomfortable.  We use various lubricants but it doesn’t seem > to help.  Does anyone know what might be causing this? She has a call > into her doctor to deal with this and possible some other things but I > figured I’d bring it here first. > –Brian  ( a tad bit embarrassed for even talking about this)

Well, unless you have a penis the size of a Louisville Slugger, I would say that the problem is that your wife is not sufficiently aroused prior to intercourse.  The vagina has an incredible ability to streach.  In fact, in pre-modern-medicine times, midwives would actually "streach" the vagina to accommodate the birth of the baby with out tearing and without incisions.  I strongly suspect that you aren’t THAT generously endowed. I think the problem is more psychological than physical.  Have you talked to your wife about why she isn’t aroused? sd

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>We’ve been working on some things and well, without getting into all >of our problems right now, I was wondering if anyone out there had >experience with this.  My wife has always complained about it, but >only now am I thinking it’s a bigger deal then I originally did. >Apparently during sex, it’s very common for my wife to split in the >vaginal area.  It’s almost not even noticeable but she says it’s >highly uncomfortable.  We use various lubricants but it doesn’t seem >to help.  Does anyone know what might be causing this? She has a call >into her doctor to deal with this and possible some other things but I >figured I’d bring it here first.   >–Brian  ( a tad bit embarrassed for even talking about this)

Brian, the most likely scenerio is that (as you have suggested) she isn’t producing adequate lubrication.  This could be because she isn’t sexually aroused at the point where you try to introduce anything into the vagina –and that can include your fingers.  Vaginal membranes can stretch, but they can also be torn if it is done too quickly or roughly.   Some women also have problems with lubrication.  For some it is cyclical (related to the time of the month), for some it can be a side effect of specific medications, and for some it can be symptom of some underlying problem, such as diabetes or hypertension or even secondary to problems during childbirth.   Another possibility is that her mucous membrances throughout her body are fragile, for some reason.  Fragile mucous membranes can be a symptom of several diseases, like lupus or rheumatoid arthritis.   I’m not trying to scare you.  It is *most* likely that it is the first, and that she simply needs more time (and preferably, an orgasm!) before manual or penile intromission, but this could be a symptom of an underlying problem, so she should definitely pursue it with a doctor. Sheila

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Hi Maggie! I’m going to ask my nephrologist to retest me when I see him in two weeks.  He has been my all-around doctor, even though he is not my PCP.  He ordered the first test. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -JD…@webtv.net wrote in message <news:21668-3FF65716-148@storefull-3214.bay.webtv.net>… > Hi Wesley! > Will they retest your adrenals before taking you off the pred > completely?  I’m gonna research the adrenal gland as soon as I can focus > a little better.  Yesterday did me in.  I find it all very weird.  I > understand what Shelagh (Thank you Shelagh!:))  means now.  I’m just > weirded out on my own though.  : ) > I know another test isn’t something you want more of, but it’s worrisome > to think they’d stop the pred without making sure the adrenals are > working again. > Hugs, > Maggie

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Hi Nettie, I have been on prednisone since 1985.  It is going to be tough to get off now, especially since I have developed a lupus-like disease and adrenal insufficiency.  What I need to do is get my doctors talking to each other.  You may know how hard that is.  My nephrologist, endocrinologist, and rheumy want me to stay on prednisone, but with this new transplant medication protocol, the transplant surgeons are hot to get me off it altogether.  They claim that it messes things up as far as tracking lab work, rejection, etc., and it makes it harder to adjust medications.  So you see, they have a point also.  I just feel so much better on at least a small dose. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Mercy" <pickadillyNOS…@charter.net> wrote in message <news:vvd15i26ajm5a@corp.supernews.com>… > Wesley, I feel bad for you.  Sometimes we just cannot go off Prednisone > ever.  If I drop below 3mg. I go into such a bad flare and it sets so many > bad things into motion.  I had to go way up to come back down.  Perhaps your > drs. should start listening to you because you know your body best.  5mg. is > a reasonable dose and if that is where you are comfortable, then why not be > there?  Sounds riduculous on the part of your drs…..  I have been on > Prednisone since 1997…. there is no turning back for me; I don’t think > ever in this life time.  Perhaps you may need to get assertive.  I know I > have become very assertive with my drs. and they now listen to me instead of > trying to lead me down the wrong paths and then I am only sorry for it later > when they say, oh yes, you were right…. think about it.  2mg. is not going > to make a huge difference.  I’m in your court, especially on this one. >   Nettie  :>))

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Wesley wrote: > I have been on prednisone since 1985.  It is going to be tough to get > off now, especially since I have developed a lupus-like disease and > adrenal insufficiency.  What I need to do is get my doctors talking to > each other.  You may know how hard that is.  My nephrologist, > endocrinologist, and rheumy want me to stay on prednisone, but with > this new transplant medication protocol, the transplant surgeons are > hot to get me off it altogether.  They claim that it messes things up > as far as tracking lab work, rejection, etc., and it makes it harder > to adjust medications.  So you see, they have a point also.  I just > feel so much better on at least a small dose.

A very real concern, because it took so long to find you a kidney and you’re had a lifetime of surgeries. Each one, as we age, get more difficult to recover from and I sure hope you can stay on some pred to help with the symptoms. Hugs Wes J

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Hi Nettie, I am going to start the shots next week if all goes well.  I got myself psyched to actually do it & discovered I had 1/3cc syringes.  That’s an ouchy

In article <29v9lv4bau1adma19eo70rp9asoo9qv…@4ax.com>, kcat <kca…@newsguy.com> wrote [ >probably due to an allergy to one of the other metals.  "gold" is not >just gold but contains other metals that are more reactive.  Now, I'm >not a metallurgist so don't ask me to say *what* is in it that could >be causing a problem.

I think the usual alloyers are silver and copper. [ >I'll do some digging - I *believe* nickel is one of the least reactive >metals but won't swear to it.

Don't - it has been implicated in "Euro-rash", [1] where people say the new European currency causes rashes. Mind you, they may be political rashes… [1] NOT Euro-trash – that is Something Else. — Andy [Chair, N E Lupus Group] See http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/lupus for more!

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On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 19:54:02 GMT, "Sherry" <hurst…@NoSpam.invalid> wrote: >Kat, >I can’t wear most of my jewelry good expensive stuff or anything else.  I do >break out from even the gold be it a ring, necklace, or earrings.  with the >earrings my ear lobe will start to do its thing before I even have the 2nd >earring in. >I know that I’m weird…my skin is super sensitive to lots of things….but >why my jewelry? Who knows.

probably due to an allergy to one of the other metals.  "gold" is not just gold but contains other metals that are more reactive.  Now, I’m not a metallurgist so don’t ask me to say *what* is in it that could be causing a problem.  My sister has a similar problem (she also has SLE) but reacts largely to cheap silver I think.  She also turns all of her nice silver solid black after a short time.  Something (acids?) in her skin cause tarnishing quickly.  I believe copper would pose a similar problem for her. Most of us have heard of the expression "hypoallergenic posts" when dealing with earrings.  I think there’s less protective skin in pierced ears making them more susceptible to allergic reactions to metals. But hypoallergenic just means a reduced allergic response or less likelihood of an allergic response.  I wear earrings only on occasion because no matter what I do to protect myself (cortisone cream and antibiotic ointment) they get sore after a couple of hours. End result – your response is probably not directly related to autoimmune disease but to allergy.  However, having an autoimmune disease tends to exacerbate our allergies.   IMO – I would try a gold ring (not you of course but the OP’s fiance) and feel that after a few days if there is no reaction around the finger than a wedding band should be no big deal.   I’ll do some digging – I *believe* nickel is one of the least reactive metals but won’t swear to it.

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I take it this way, as far as what lupus people must avoid:  whatever agent that they find flares them.  I consider lupies to generally have "multiple chemical sensitivity," in that almost invariably there is going to be a chemical agent that causes you a flare.  I used to have to wash my clothes at a laundromat.  One day I was exposed to something at the laundromat, and I came home and fell on the couch, could not move for four days… after that I had an exacerbation of my illness that lasted three years! I think everybody has to make their own list.  Mine includes laundry soap, chlorine bleach, "simple green,"  WD-40, "Polo" cologne, concord grapes, red wine,Top Ramen, and hot dogs (except hebrew national).  Sun, car exhaust, dieting, and emotional stress are flare factors as well. Hope this Helps Mair "NW" <ninb…@MJAUyahoo.se> wrote in message

news:p_15b.26593$dP1.68664@newsc.telia.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Blewyn" <ble…@btinternet.com> skrev i meddelandet > news:bj04db$6cg$1@titan.btinternet.com… > > Thanks for the advice posted in response to my earlier question ! I read > the > > links provided, and now have another question : > > Gold.  Is this a trade name for a drug that sufferers must avoid, or is > gold > > itself a danger to Discoid Lupus sufferers ? My girlfriend and I have > just > > bought a pair of wedding rings….. > Don’t know much about what lupus people should avoid, since I have other > kinds of arthritis. However, I do know that gold sodium injections and some > other pill called Ridaura were pretty popular treatments for rheumatoid > arthritis before the newer treatments. Don’t know how much they still are > being used. Anyway, both Ridaura and the Myochrisine can affect the kidneys > among other things. > Looking at rxlist.com, Myochrisine is contraindicated in systemic lupus. > Doesn’t stand why, though. > http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic2/myochrysine_od.htm > Nina

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On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 20:08:29 +0000 (UTC), "Blewyn" <ble…@btinternet.com> wrote: >Thanks to all for the advice, it’s REALLY appreciated ! On the subject of >chemicals and skin, I have a somewhat radical suggestion…….just shower >with water, nothing else.  

yeah – sadly not enough.  got long hair that would never get clean that way.  I do have a very "clean" oatmeal soap (it’s oatmeal, honey, vegetable and a touch of shea butter) that has made a *huge* difference in my reaction to shampoos and such.  Medication and poor absorption of nutrients has made my hair (one of the few things I get vain about) coarse and losing pigment.  So i’ve been trying to find a decent conditioner that won’t hurt my skin or at least hurt it less. Live in a very humid climate. OTOH – I understand that when we strip the oils from the hair and skin the skin reacts to replace them – kind of end up in an endless do loop eh? >apply soap if I’ve got oil, grease or grime on me, which is uncommon seeing >as I’m a penpusher.  

 :-)  I’m a fountain pen pusher.  constantly got ink stains on my hands.  constantly trying to get ink stains off of my hands.   >someone with your kind of problem – may well give your skin the protective >coating it needs.

Thanks for the input. There’s a part of me that is logical and understands the skin response to detergents. there’s another part of me that says AACK!  :)

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Blewyn wrote:

<snip> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks to all for the advice, it’s REALLY appreciated ! On the subject of > chemicals and skin, I have a somewhat radical suggestion…….just shower > with water, nothing else.  I have been doing this for about 4 weeks now > (paying VERY close attention to my odour..) on the advice of my hairdresser, > and my skin looks better than it has for ages – NO spots ! My hair looks > great – but does start to look greasy if it isn’t showered at least once per > day (my climate 15-25

Chakolate wrote: > Sue and Kevin Mullen <kjmul…@comcast.net> wrote in > news:bgumrc$stos1$1@ID-128032.news.uni-berlin.de: >>Thought you would all like to hear the good news. > Excellent news.  Thanks!

Thanks! From just a few hours ago, I can feel an improvement. sue

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Frankenmel wrote: >>From: Sue and Kevin Mullen kjmul…@comcast.net >>Date: 8/7/03 4:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>Frankenmel wrote: >>>>From: Sue and Kevin Mullen kjmul…@comcast.net >>>>Date: 8/7/03 4:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>>>Just wanted to let you all know, I do NOT have rheumatism!! All of my >>>>joint pain turns out to be a reaction to Avapro, a blood pressure >>>>medicine. Joint and muscle pain are listed as a side effect, way down >>>>near the bottom of the list. Since I have CFS, I tend to get many more >>>>side effects then most people. >>>>After seeing my doctor on tuesday, I stopped the Avapro and my joint >>>>pain is on its way out. Today is the first day, that I really see an >>>>improvement and feel it will continue. At last I know that I will be >>>>fine, before my cruise on 8/23. >>>>Thought you would all like to hear the good news. >>>Hooray! So who figured it out? >>I did and then had to convince my doctor. I don’t fault him, since I >>have the most unusual reactions to meds. I think muscle and joint pain >>are only 1% or something like that. > I thought if he was going to pin a label of rheumatism on you,he should at > least have some idea what aspect of it he was talking about.

The first time I complained to him and he said it was rheumatism, he gave me an accupuncture treatment. My feeling is that he wanted to see what that would do and then take it from there. I am not an expert, but I think if it had continued, he would of had to run tests to see exactly what the problem was. If I had not seen the side effects of Avapro, we would of discussed it furtheer. Now there is no need. sue

Response:

"FurPaw" <furpawnews…@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:3F32F629.4070108@comcast.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sue and Kevin Mullen wrote: > >  Just wanted to let you all know, I do NOT have rheumatism!! All of my > > joint pain turns out to be a reaction to Avapro, a blood pressure > > medicine. Joint and muscle pain are listed as a side effect, way down > > near the bottom of the list. Since I have CFS, I tend to get many more > > side effects then most people. > > After seeing my doctor on tuesday, I stopped the Avapro and my joint > > pain is on its way out. Today is the first day, that I really see an > > improvement and feel it will continue. At last I know that I will be > > fine, before my cruise on 8/23. > > Thought you would all like to hear the good news. > That’s great news! > I had a joint-pain reaction to Septra (an antibiotic) once.  All > of a sudden my wrists, hands, knees and feet started aching > constantly, enough to keep me awake at night.  I was ready to run > to the nearest rheumatologist when it occured to me that maybe it > was a side effect of Septra.  I checked the PDR in the medical > office at work the next day (this was pre-internet) and sure > enough – it was one of those rare side effects.

I once went to bed basically fine & woke up a few hours later to pee.  Okay, except I had also developed an all-over body rash in those few hours.  Yep, Septra. Cathy — "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble")  Paul Simon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I understand how relieved you feel! > FurPaw > — > There’s no reason to give credence to anything spoken above 90 > decibels. > To reply, unleash the dog.

Response:

Thanks Cathy!! I am so relieved and am now looking forward to Bermuda again. sue – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Cathy Friedmann wrote: > Yes, that is good news! > Cathy > — > "Staccato signals of constant information…" > ("The Boy in the Bubble")  Paul Simon > "Sue and Kevin Mullen" <kjmul…@comcast.net> wrote in message > news:bgumrc$stos1$1@ID-128032.news.uni-berlin.de… >>  Just wanted to let you all know, I do NOT have rheumatism!! All of my >>joint pain turns out to be a reaction to Avapro, a blood pressure >>medicine. Joint and muscle pain are listed as a side effect, way down >>near the bottom of the list. Since I have CFS, I tend to get many more >>side effects then most people. >>After seeing my doctor on tuesday, I stopped the Avapro and my joint >>pain is on its way out. Today is the first day, that I really see an >>improvement and feel it will continue. At last I know that I will be >>fine, before my cruise on 8/23. >>Thought you would all like to hear the good news. >>sue

Response:

Sue and Kevin Mullen wrote: >  Just wanted to let you all know, I do NOT have rheumatism!! All of my > joint pain turns out to be a reaction to Avapro, a blood pressure > medicine. Joint and muscle pain are listed as a side effect, way down > near the bottom of the list. Since I have CFS, I tend to get many more > side effects then most people. > After seeing my doctor on tuesday, I stopped the Avapro and my joint > pain is on its way out. Today is the first day, that I really see an > improvement and feel it will continue. At last I know that I will be > fine, before my cruise on 8/23. > Thought you would all like to hear the good news.

That’s great news! I had a joint-pain reaction to Septra (an antibiotic) once.  All of a sudden my wrists, hands, knees and feet started aching constantly, enough to keep me awake at night.  I was ready to run to the nearest rheumatologist when it occured to me that maybe it was a side effect of Septra.  I checked the PDR in the medical office at work the next day (this was pre-internet) and sure enough – it was one of those rare side effects. I understand how relieved you feel! FurPaw — There’s no reason to give credence to anything spoken above 90 decibels. To reply, unleash the dog.

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Ooooh – say hello to St. Catherine’s & Horseshoe Bay beaches for me…  they were gorgeous!   Mmmm…  lovely sand, warm & bouyant sea green water, blue skies, a few puffy white clouds…  :-) Cathy — "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble")  Paul Simon "Sue and Kevin Mullen" <kjmul…@comcast.net> wrote in message news:bgus0u$t1qts$1@ID-128032.news.uni-berlin.de… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks Cathy!! I am so relieved and am now looking forward to Bermuda > again. > sue > Cathy Friedmann wrote: > > Yes, that is good news! > > Cathy > > — > > "Staccato signals of constant information…" > > ("The Boy in the Bubble")  Paul Simon > > "Sue and Kevin Mullen" <kjmul…@comcast.net> wrote in message > > news:bgumrc$stos1$1@ID-128032.news.uni-berlin.de… > >>  Just wanted to let you all know, I do NOT have rheumatism!! All of my > >>joint pain turns out to be a reaction to Avapro, a blood pressure > >>medicine. Joint and muscle pain are listed as a side effect, way down > >>near the bottom of the list. Since I have CFS, I tend to get many more > >>side effects then most people. > >>After seeing my doctor on tuesday, I stopped the Avapro and my joint > >>pain is on its way out. Today is the first day, that I really see an > >>improvement and feel it will continue. At last I know that I will be > >>fine, before my cruise on 8/23. > >>Thought you would all like to hear the good news. > >>sue

Response:

Yes, that is good news! Cathy — "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble")  Paul Simon "Sue and Kevin Mullen" <kjmul…@comcast.net> wrote in message news:bgumrc$stos1$1@ID-128032.news.uni-berlin.de… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->   Just wanted to let you all know, I do NOT have rheumatism!! All of my > joint pain turns out to be a reaction to Avapro, a blood pressure > medicine. Joint and muscle pain are listed as a side effect, way down > near the bottom of the list. Since I have CFS, I tend to get many more > side effects then most people. > After seeing my doctor on tuesday, I stopped the Avapro and my joint > pain is on its way out. Today is the first day, that I really see an > improvement and feel it will continue. At last I know that I will be > fine, before my cruise on 8/23. > Thought you would all like to hear the good news. > sue

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->From: Sue and Kevin Mullen kjmul…@comcast.net >Date: 8/7/03 4:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time >  Just wanted to let you all know, I do NOT have rheumatism!! All of my >joint pain turns out to be a reaction to Avapro, a blood pressure >medicine. Joint and muscle pain are listed as a side effect, way down >near the bottom of the list. Since I have CFS, I tend to get many more >side effects then most people. >After seeing my doctor on tuesday, I stopped the Avapro and my joint >pain is on its way out. Today is the first day, that I really see an >improvement and feel it will continue. At last I know that I will be >fine, before my cruise on 8/23. >Thought you would all like to hear the good news.

Hooray! So who figured it out? Sharon…………A warm toll-house cookie is an experience not unlike a religious epiphany.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Frankenmel wrote: >>From: Sue and Kevin Mullen kjmul…@comcast.net >>Date: 8/7/03 4:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time >> Just wanted to let you all know, I do NOT have rheumatism!! All of my >>joint pain turns out to be a reaction to Avapro, a blood pressure >>medicine. Joint and muscle pain are listed as a side effect, way down >>near the bottom of the list. Since I have CFS, I tend to get many more >>side effects then most people. >>After seeing my doctor on tuesday, I stopped the Avapro and my joint >>pain is on its way out. Today is the first day, that I really see an >>improvement and feel it will continue. At last I know that I will be >>fine, before my cruise on 8/23. >>Thought you would all like to hear the good news. > Hooray! So who figured it out?

I did and then had to convince my doctor. I don’t fault him, since I have the most unusual reactions to meds. I think muscle and joint pain are only 1% or something like that. sue

Response:

Sue and Kevin Mullen <kjmul…@comcast.net> wrote in news:bgumrc$stos1$1@ID-128032.news.uni-berlin.de: > Thought you would all like to hear the good news.

Excellent news.  Thanks! Chakolate

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->From: Sue and Kevin Mullen kjmul…@comcast.net >Date: 8/7/03 4:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time >Frankenmel wrote: >>>From: Sue and Kevin Mullen kjmul…@comcast.net >>>Date: 8/7/03 4:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>> Just wanted to let you all know, I do NOT have rheumatism!! All of my >>>joint pain turns out to be a reaction to Avapro, a blood pressure >>>medicine. Joint and muscle pain are listed as a side effect, way down >>>near the bottom of the list. Since I have CFS, I tend to get many more >>>side effects then most people. >>>After seeing my doctor on tuesday, I stopped the Avapro and my joint >>>pain is on its way out. Today is the first day, that I really see an >>>improvement and feel it will continue. At last I know that I will be >>>fine, before my cruise on 8/23. >>>Thought you would all like to hear the good news. >> Hooray! So who figured it out? >I did and then had to convince my doctor. I don’t fault him, since I >have the most unusual reactions to meds. I think muscle and joint pain >are only 1% or something like that.

I thought if he was going to pin a label of rheumatism on you,he should at least have some idea what aspect of it he was talking about. Sharon…………A warm toll-house cookie is an experience not unlike a religious epiphany.

Response:

  Just wanted to let you all know, I do NOT have rheumatism!! All of my joint pain turns out to be a reaction to Avapro, a blood pressure medicine. Joint and muscle pain are listed as a side effect, way down near the bottom of the list. Since I have CFS, I tend to get many more side effects then most people. After seeing my doctor on tuesday, I stopped the Avapro and my joint pain is on its way out. Today is the first day, that I really see an improvement and feel it will continue. At last I know that I will be fine, before my cruise on 8/23. Thought you would all like to hear the good news. sue

Response:

>From: Sue and Kevin Mullen kjmul…@comcast.net >Date: 8/1/03 8:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time >Kevin found this website: http://www.reumaliitto.fi/rheuma.htm >Here is a quote from the site: >"Rheumatism is a general name for musculoskeletal kiseases or their >symptoms.

I would ask the doctor to be more specific.It’s like he told you that you have a head. Well,sure you do,but then what? Sharon…………A warm toll-house cookie is an experience not unlike a religious epiphany.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Frankenmel wrote: >>From: Sue and Kevin Mullen kjmul…@comcast.net >>Date: 8/1/03 8:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>Kevin found this website: http://www.reumaliitto.fi/rheuma.htm >>Here is a quote from the site: >>"Rheumatism is a general name for musculoskeletal kiseases or their >>symptoms. > I would ask the doctor to be more specific.It’s like he told you that you have > a head. Well,sure you do,but then what?

I fully intent to get more information from him on my next visit, which is this coming week. He may need some tests, before he can be more specific. He also knows we are going on a cruise soon and may be waiting untill we get back to look further. Whatever, we will be talking to him this week. sue

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I lost the thread where Sue Mullen and I were discussing rheumatism. Anyway,here is the definition I found,which makes it sound as though rheumatism is an umbrella term and not a separate syndrome unto itself: "rheumatism General term for acute and chronic conditions characterized by inflammation (arthritis, tendonitis and bursitis), soreness and stiffness of muscles, and pain in joints and associated structures. " Sharon…………A warm toll-house cookie is an experience not unlike a religious epiphany.

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I just posted to it, so you’ll probably find it again. Rheumatoid arthritis is also usually symmetrical – if your left knee hurts, so does your right knee, etc. Cathy — "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble")  Paul Simon "Frankenmel" <franken…@aol.comDONT> wrote in message

news:20030801161313.18105.00000761@mb-m17.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I lost the thread where Sue Mullen and I were discussing rheumatism. > Anyway,here is the definition I found,which makes it sound as though rheumatism > is an umbrella term and not a separate syndrome unto itself: > "rheumatism > General term for acute and chronic conditions characterized by inflammation > (arthritis, tendonitis and bursitis), soreness and stiffness of muscles, and > pain in joints and associated structures. " > Sharon…………A warm toll-house cookie is an experience not unlike a > religious epiphany.

Response:

Btw – it was in "Still here lurking" thread, I think. Cathy — "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble")  Paul Simon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Frankenmel" <franken…@aol.comDONT> wrote in message > news:20030801161313.18105.00000761@mb-m17.aol.com… > > I lost the thread where Sue Mullen and I were discussing rheumatism.

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>From: "Cathy Friedmann" c…@adelphia.net >Date: 8/1/03 1:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time >Rheumatoid arthritis is also usually symmetrical – if your left knee hurts, >so does your right knee, etc.

Thanks for this. DH’s problem in his hand is mainly the right hand,index finger knuckle. Sharon…………A warm toll-house cookie is an experience not unlike a religious epiphany.

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Frankenmel wrote: > I lost the thread where Sue Mullen and I were discussing rheumatism. > Anyway,here is the definition I found,which makes it sound as though rheumatism > is an umbrella term and not a separate syndrome unto itself: > "rheumatism > General term for acute and chronic conditions characterized by inflammation > (arthritis, tendonitis and bursitis), soreness and stiffness of muscles, and > pain in joints and associated structures. "

Just said the same thing in my last post, rheumatism is a general term. According to my doctor and what I have read, it has to do with pain in the joints. Also stiffness when you first get up, which I have first thing in the morning, as well as anyother time I stand, sit or lay for more then a few minutes. He has said that this is only the joints, not the muscles. I get a lot of aches in my muscles because of my CFS, mainly when I do to much, but that I know how to deal with, I have been doing that for years. sue

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Cathy Friedmann wrote: > I just posted to it, so you’ll probably find it again. > Rheumatoid arthritis is also usually symmetrical – if your left knee hurts, > so does your right knee, etc.

Interesting, I have problems on both sides of my body, but the right side is the worst. sue

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>From: Sue and Kevin Mullen kjmul…@comcast.net >Date: 8/1/03 2:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time >He has said that this is only the joints, not the muscles.

AFAIK,arthritis *is* the joints,not the muscles. I really wonder about his diagnosis. Sharon…………A warm toll-house cookie is an experience not unlike a religious epiphany.

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Frankenmel wrote: >>From: Sue and Kevin Mullen kjmul…@comcast.net >>Date: 8/1/03 2:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>He has said that this is only the joints, not the muscles. > AFAIK,arthritis *is* the joints,not the muscles. > I really wonder about his diagnosis.

He said rheumatism is only in the joints, not the muscles. I guess there are different things that can be wrong with the joints. I am only guessing here, but the reason for his diagnosis might be because of which of my joints hurt,many not just one, conbined with the overal stiffness upon arising. sue

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>From: Sue and Kevin Mullen kjmul…@comcast.net >Date: 8/1/03 2:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time >He said rheumatism is only in the joints, not the muscles.

Is he saying arthritis is in the muscles??? > I am only >guessing here, but the reason for his diagnosis might be because of >which of my joints hurt,many not just one, conbined with the overal >stiffness upon arising.

Sure sounds like arthritis to me. And to DH also. Sharon…………A warm toll-house cookie is an experience not unlike a religious epiphany.

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Frankenmel wrote: >>From: Sue and Kevin Mullen kjmul…@comcast.net >>Date: 8/1/03 2:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>He said rheumatism is only in the joints, not the muscles. > Is he saying arthritis is in the muscles???

Not at all, just that rheumatism is only in the joints. Never said anything about arthritis being in the muscles, just that he said I didn’t have arthritis. > Sure sounds like arthritis to me. And to DH also.

Well, my doctor knows my whole history. I will find out more as time goes on. sue

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Kevin found this website: http://www.reumaliitto.fi/rheuma.htm Here is a quote from the site: "Rheumatism is a general name for musculoskeletal kiseases or their symptoms. Rheumatic diseases include inflammatory rheumatism, arthritis, a variety of back disorders, gout, oteoporosis and soft tissue rheumatism." ————————————————————————— ——- Another site gives this definition of Rheumatism and Arthritis: "Rheumatism: A general term for acute and chronic conditions characterized by inflammation, soreness and stiffness of muscles, and pain in joints and associated structures. It includes arthritis (infectious, rheumatoid, gouty); arthritis due to rheumatic fever or trauma/ degenerative joint disease: neurogenic arthropathy; hydroarthrosis; myositis; bursitis; fibromyositis; and many other conditions. Arthritis: Inflammation of a joint, usually accompanied by pain, swelling and frequently, changes in structure. Other forms of arthritis include ankylosing spondylitis (AS), and the systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE)." Taken from: http://www.egregore.com/diseases/rheumatism.html ————————————————————————— ——– sue

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Hi Candi, I see the dificulties then, if they dx’d you via an old way. I think my friend Zinn is in the same boat, now her GP is claiming she doesn’t have Lupus, too weird ! Maybe it just means you’ve taken care of yourselves, stayed out of the sun and only mild Lupus? Good luck if you’re seeing a new doctor, ask to be monitored and treated symptomatically, if they can’t rule in/or out. I think The Lupus Book mentions ANA negative, but not sure. Hugs J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Candi Bowen wrote: > Thanks so much. I’m not aking any meds at present. I was dx’d about 15 years > ago & didn’t take meds then either, so that’s been ruled out. P’ve had blood > clots, am extremely photosensitive, & always have livido reticularis, ie; > collagen vascular problems. Oh, well, medicine isn’t an exact science & they > just can’t pin a label on everything. Thanks again.

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Thanks so much. I’m not aking any meds at present. I was dx’d about 15 years ago & didn’t take meds then either, so that’s been ruled out. P’ve had blood clots, am extremely photosensitive, & always have livido reticularis, ie; collagen vascular problems. Oh, well, medicine isn’t an exact science & they just can’t pin a label on everything. Thanks again. Candi ———- In article <3EAC78A7.54963…@execulink.com>, J <OrangeCr…@example.com> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->www.postgradmed.com/issues/2000/01_00/curb.htm >Although your patient currently does not show signs or symptoms of collagen >vascular disease, she does manifest autoimmune disease through positive >rheumatoid factor and ANA tests. A speckled ANA pattern is associated with a >wide variety of conditions, such as SLE, Sj